Matt_Caulfield comments on How to deal with someone in a LessWrong meeting being creepy - Less Wrong

16 Post author: Douglas_Reay 09 September 2012 04:41AM

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Comment author: Matt_Caulfield 08 September 2012 12:40:41AM 1 point [-]

The world. Find highest possible total utility, act accordingly.

Of course that result may not work out great for some particular person, and that's interesting, but that's not the question I'm asking right now.

Comment author: drethelin 08 September 2012 12:43:08AM 6 points [-]

So you think the world would be better off if creepy men all "go away"? A bold point to make. Maybe they should just kill themselves while they're at it?

Comment author: fubarobfusco 08 September 2012 12:58:30AM *  4 points [-]

Creepy behavior should go away. Individuals can update.

There is little value in staying creepy, after all.

Comment author: DanArmak 08 September 2012 07:28:22PM 2 points [-]

It's hard enough to learn to update one's abstract formal beliefs. Updating one's unconsciously regulated social behavior is impossible in the general case, and in most of the desirable concrete cases too. And here the people who should "update" are the ones who are least adept at social behavior to begin with.

Comment author: tmgerbich 08 September 2012 11:39:56PM 3 points [-]

Updating one's unconsciously regulated social behavior is impossible in the general case, and in most of the desirable >concrete cases too.

I don't see why that should necessarily be the case. It would simply require specifying the desired behavior and bringing it into the realm of the conscious until the new behavior is learned.

For example, if I were able to realize that a major barrier to my social communication is my lack of eye contact, I could make a deliberate effort to always make eye contact when having conversations. Ideally this behavior would eventually become internalized, but even if it didn't there's no actual reason why I couldn't keep it up for the rest of my life.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 08 September 2012 11:29:30PM 1 point [-]

Updating one's unconsciously regulated social behavior is impossible in the general case, and in most of the desirable concrete cases too.

"Impossible" is a big claim. We don't put much stock in zero or one probabilities around here ...

System 1 can be programmed by System 2. There are cases of individuals updating to become (e.g.) less socially anxious; less triggered by various things; or less bigoted in various ways. About fifteen years ago I took a massive update about taking responsibility for actions that had harmed others; the details are more private than I care to post about, though. For that matter, there are religious and philosophical conversion experiences that produce dramatic social behavior change; and psychedelic experiences that do so, too.

People can change. Many people spend a lot of effort constructing rationalizations as to why they shouldn't have to, though.

Comment author: Matt_Caulfield 08 September 2012 01:33:53AM *  1 point [-]

I'm not sure, I'm still thinking it through. The point is that it is not immediately obvious to me that we should reject a result just because it seems unattractive. Maybe our intuitions are just wrong. See the Repugnant Conclusion and Torture vs. Specks.