= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
army1987 comments on How to deal with someone in a LessWrong meeting being creepy - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (769)
Imagine two men who have the same socio-economical position, the same amount of social skills, wear similar clothes, behave the same way, etc., etc., but one is 5'6" (1.68 m) and one is 6' (1.83 m). Most women will likely be more attracted to the latter; would you say he has higher status?
Yes, minorly: halo effect. Though given your example I see that status and attraction aren't the same thing, they're just intertwined in a ridiculous positive feedback loop, to the extent that it's very easy to think of them as the same thing. Having more women be attracted to you usually leads to better social skills. Having more height usually means more self-confidence, etcetc.
The specific situation you describe also can't possibly arise, because one would look down at me to speak to me and the other would look up. Then they'd be behaving differently.
ETA: I tried to think of a least convenient world, but couldn't.
Suppose you're standing on a staircase. The taller man stands on a step below you, while the shorter man stands on a step above you, and the steps are of such height that each would be looking you directly in the eye. Is that a sufficiently inconvenient world?
Take it from someone with rather low basic social status (multiple forms of visible minority, many of which are still thought of mainly as "deviant" rather than just "other", who can't can't hide it out and about in daily life): the fact that you see it this way has more to do with your own situation and your own unfulfilled preferences, than with it being a basic feature of how status works. Status is not primarily about your sexual attractiveness to people. Low-status people get laid all the time. Low-status people get into lasting relationships. Low-status people have children. Low-status people even make ethical nonmonogamy work for them. (Low status people who fit all of the above can even be sexually frustrated!)
IAWYC but
C'mon. There's a difference between looking down (physically) because you're shorter and looking down at you (physically) because I'm looking down (metaphorically). (I'm 1.87 m (6'2") myself so I have to do the former all the time.) In the latter case, I will stand up straight with my shoulders back and only tilt my eyes and (to a lower extent) my head down. In the former case, I will (say) sit on a stool while you're on a higher chair/walk on the edge of the carriageway while you're walking on the sidewalk/stand on a lower step of a stairway than you, and/or bend my whole upper body downwards.
(Why does this comment looks to me as if there are unbalanced parentheses even though I know there aren't?)
Of course, but it still has an effect. And also the tall guy standing a step below me is definitely not behaving the same as the short guy standing a step above me.
Anyway, the difference in this case is negligible and doesn't help the situation at hand. As far as I can see, to have a guy who was more physically attractive score lower on status would require lowering some other type of attractiveness, like behaviour or signalling. The actions you describe are signalling.
Come to think of it, maybe we just mean different things when we say "attractiveness".
Huh, yeah. He's also wearing larger clothes, and curving spacetime by a larger amount. But “all other things” in “all other things being equal” doesn't usually literally mean all other things -- otherwise any counterfactual will involve logical inconsistencies.
By “attractiveness” I meant the set of all things about me that determine how likely you are to be attracted to me, not just handsomeness. It seems like you might be using “status” the same way I'm using “attractiveness”, whereas I'm using it only for “social” (FLOABW) features. IOW, as I'm using the words, I can have higher or lower status in a given social group but higher or lower attractiveness for a given person. Given that not all women in the same group will be attracted to exactly the same features in men, and given that one can be higher- or lower-status even in an all-straight-male group, the two are not synonymous.
I think you're misunderstanding my point. I agree that status has a wider social meaning, but I was specifically referring to status in the context of one man approaching one woman, and saying that in that case it is usually at least monotonic with attraction. A well-respected academic has status within his field, but is still low-status in male-female interaction terms if he is sufficiently uncharismatic.
Edit: oops. My earlier comments didn't make this at all clear.
I don't think Athrelon in the comment that started this thread meant "status" in the latter sense.
Fair enough. Guess I was arguing a completely different point then.
Now, where did that thread go which was about the better way to fix creepiness being how to teach people to get/signal more status, rather than what not to do... Pretty sure there they're using this definition.
(Gah, words are hard.)