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thomblake comments on The noncentral fallacy - the worst argument in the world? - Less Wrong
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Ok, I'm out. You are actively hurting causes that I think are important. Please STOP.
If you say you are advancing better social roles for women, you are LYING. To me, or to yourself.
That seems like an uncharitable conclusion - it seems much more likely that eridu is merely mistaken, for example.
Being mindkilled and claiming otherwise is a lie.
I should think that being mindkilled is very likely to include not being aware of being mindkilled.
or an irrational mistake.
That sounds like an unconventional definition of the word "lie", at best.
Let's imagine that you asked me whether I owned a car, and I said "yes". Unbeknownst to me, my car had been utterly obliterated by a meteorite strike five minutes prior. Did I lie ?
How does that expanded definition of lie square with what you said about guilt-tripping elsewhere in the thread?
Edit: I should mention I somewhat agree with your use of the word lie, for reasons similar to those discussed here, and disagree with your position on guilt tripping.
Which position on guilt-tripping do you mean? :)
I was not careful with my words and thus articulated several distinct positions. The most accurate articulation is that I think we are responsible for society's actions with which we have a causal relation. By contrast, convention morality asserts that we are responsible only for things that we proximately cause.
Separately, I assert that our social actions cause the social norms of a society. And most of our actions are social actions. EDIT: Thus, we are responsible for any harms caused by society's social norms.
I don't under what any of that has to do with my post at issue, which is about my division between (a) delusional actors for whom responsibility is a useless concept for outsiders to use (not guilty by reason of insanity), and (b) those who are maliciously irrational.
People who are mindkilled generally don't realize it.
Generally, yes. But it is possible to be poor at updating on the evidence related to a proposition P, but realize the fact "TimS is poor at updating related to P." It's not common, but it does happen.*
Don't we aspire to be the Lens that Sees Its Flaws.
I agree, I also think this applies to a lot more situations than just this case.
Given what we've said before in this particular conversation, I don't understand what you are saying here.
Guilt tripping does work, and can be an effective method of changing people's behavior.