Bugmaster comments on The noncentral fallacy - the worst argument in the world? - Less Wrong

157 Post author: Yvain 27 August 2012 03:36AM

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Comment author: Bugmaster 13 September 2012 04:57:13PM 6 points [-]

I dislike this solution, for several reasons.

  • I realize that we want to get rid of trolls, and I agree that this is a worthy goal, but one single person shouldn't be in charge of deciding who's a troll and who isn't.
  • Now that everyone knows that downvotes can cause a person to lose their ability to comment (I assume that's what "ban" means, could be wrong though), unscrupulous community members (and we must have some, statistically speaking, as unpleasant as that thought is) can use their downvotes offensively -- sort of like painting a target with a laser, allowing the Eliezer-nuke to home in.
  • Downvoting a comment does not always imply that the commenter is a troll. People also use downvotes to express things like "your argument is weak and unconvincing", and "I disagree with you strongly". We want to discourage the latter usage, and IMO we should encourage the former, but Eliezer's new policy does nothing to achieve these goals, and in fact harms them.
Comment author: DaFranker 13 September 2012 08:59:29PM *  4 points [-]

If the problem is differentiating between trolls and simply weak, airy, or badly formed comments/arguments, I think the obvious simple solution would be to do what has worked elsewhere and add a "Report" or "Troll-Alert" option to bring the comment/post to the attention of moderators or send it to a community-review queue.

It certainly seems easier to control for abuse of a Report feature than to control for trolling and troll-feeding using a single linear score that doesn't even tell you whether that -2 is just 2 * (-1) (two people think the poster is evil) or whether it's +5 -7 (five cultists approve, seven rationalists think it's a troll) (unless moderators can see a breakdown of this?).

Comment author: Alicorn 13 September 2012 09:50:03PM *  0 points [-]

Do you not see a Report button? There at least used to be one; I can't see because I only see a Ban button.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 13 September 2012 10:27:39PM 6 points [-]

There is a Report button when I view comments that are replies to my comments, or when I view private messages.
There is no Report button when I view comments normally.

Comment author: DaFranker 13 September 2012 10:54:40PM *  0 points [-]

Oh, you're right! Didn't remember that, but the inbox does have "Context" and "Report" links instead of the standard buttons.

Edit: I suppose a clever bit of scripting could probably fix it browser-side, then, but that's a very hacky solution and there's still value in having a built-in report button for, say, people who don't have the script or often access lesswrong from different browsers/computers.

Comment author: katydee 13 September 2012 10:10:10PM 2 points [-]

I do not see a Report button.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 14 September 2012 06:11:00AM 1 point [-]

See Issue 272. The report button was removed during a past redesign, as (I gather) redesigners didn't feel it was motivated sufficiently to bother preserving it. The issue's been in accepted/contributions-welcome mode since Sep 2011.

Comment author: Alicorn 13 September 2012 11:16:14PM 1 point [-]

Okay, if there's no longer a Report button, I at least am willing to field PMs from people who think I should consider banning specific comments.

Comment author: DaFranker 13 September 2012 10:20:31PM 1 point [-]

Nope, no report button here. Upvote/downvote on the left, Parent/Reply/Permalink on the right (+Edit/Retract when own posts).

Comment author: Bugmaster 13 September 2012 10:19:33PM 0 points [-]

I see no such button, FWIW.

Comment author: Emile 13 September 2012 05:51:17PM 0 points [-]

one single person shouldn't be in charge of deciding who's a troll and who isn't.

There are several moderators, I don't think Eliezer is the most active.

Now that everyone knows that downvotes can cause a person to lose their ability to comment (I assume that's what "ban" means, could be wrong though)

It doesn't, "ban" just means the comment is hidden.

I agree that there are downsides, they just don't seem that terrible..

Comment author: Bugmaster 13 September 2012 06:47:39PM 4 points [-]

There are several moderators, I don't think Eliezer is the most active.

I am aware of this, but Eliezer came off as being particularly invested in personally combating people whom he perceives as trolls.

It doesn't, "ban" just means the comment is hidden.

Ah, I stand corrected then, thanks for the info.

Comment author: mrglwrf 13 September 2012 08:58:20PM 0 points [-]

I agree that there are downsides, they just don't seem that terrible..

What about the never-ending meta discussions, or are you counting on those dying down soon? Because I wouldn't, unless the new policy is either dropped, or an extensive purge of the commentariat is carried out.

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