HalMorris comments on The noncentral fallacy - the worst argument in the world? - Less Wrong

157 Post author: Yvain 27 August 2012 03:36AM

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Comment author: MugaSofer 19 December 2012 10:37:36PM -2 points [-]

I'm not sure we could say anything better of Isaac Newton's alchemy.

Which, while of some minor historical significance, is not considered mainstream science AFAIK.

Popular understanding can be pretty bad. The more I read in history, the more I realized I didn't understand the past anywhere near as well as I thought I did; revelations ranging from spherical earths to gay presidents to the Founding Fathers being conspiracy theorists etc. I don't put much stock on understanding well the context of the racist who was originally being discussed, although enough information survives that I can point out discrediting parts.

Fair enough.

Wait, spherical earths I assume refers to the notion that Columbus was a visionary who somehow deduced the Earth was round before even sailors did, and while I couldn't name names statistically a few presidents must have been in the closet at least. But I have to admit I'm not sure what you mean by "the Founding Fathers being conspiracy theorists".

Comment author: HalMorris 19 December 2012 11:29:12PM *  2 points [-]

Actually the spherical earth was described by the 2nd century (AD or CE) Greek, Ptolemy (who unfortunately is best remembered for describing the phenomena of the sky in terms of concentric spheres around the earth, which led to planetary orbits having the infamous epicycles). Ptolemy not only stated but fairly well demonstrated the earth's circularity and gave a reasonable (for the time) estimate of its size. The educated classes in Columbus' time hence from my readings, were well aware that the earth was sperical.

What Columbus did, was to read Marco Polo, and from Polo's estimates of the various legs of his journey, and whatever else he had to go on, miscalculated that Japan was around 3000 miles west of Europe, and so, proposed the daring idea of sailing farther than one could hope to return from (if it turned out you were still in the middle of the ocean) because he believed he'd reach Japan and and be able to repair the ships and take on new food, water, and supplies, for the return journey. I guess he hoped for a reasonably friendly reception.

While Japan wasn't about 3000 miles west of Europe, lucky for Columbus, something was there - of the 2 oceans one would have to cross to reach Japan (plus one continent), he only had to cross the more narrow one, and such human society as he found were not a threat to a well armed group of 15c Europeans (to say the least).

Comment author: TimS 19 December 2012 11:52:47PM *  1 point [-]

Why is this down voted? I don't see any obvious inaccuracy. It elaborates nicely on Mugasofer's point.

Edit: and now it isn't down voted. I'm still confused why it ever was.

Comment author: gwern 19 December 2012 11:58:30PM 3 points [-]

Most obviously, ascribing it to Ptolemy seems like a pretty serious error given Eratosthenes's famed and remarkably accurate calculation of the diameter of the earth centuries before.

Comment author: TimS 20 December 2012 12:01:47AM 1 point [-]

Fair enough. But that's the type of thing a solitary silent down vote will essentially never communicate.

Comment author: TobyBartels 28 May 2013 03:13:42AM 0 points [-]

Indeed. The remark about Ptolemy is even accurate, as far as it goes.