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nyan_sandwich comments on The noncentral fallacy - the worst argument in the world? - Less Wrong

135 Post author: Yvain 27 August 2012 03:36AM

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Comment author: TimS 12 September 2012 08:11:55PM 0 points [-]

Is this a reference to the "All deontologists can be dutch-booked, all consequentialists choose torture" issue?

Comment author: nyan_sandwich 13 September 2012 12:16:22AM *  1 point [-]

Can all deontologists be dutch booked? Then it means something other than what I'm thinking of. (unless I'm confused. I haven't though this thru)

Not all consequentialists choose torture either. (in duck specks I assume). Pretty sure all utilitarians do tho.

The way I'm using those words is essentially consequentialism=expected utility maximization with a utility function that does not prescribe specific behaviours or thought patterns. and deontologism=holding some non-EU set of ethical/behavioural rules as fundamental (usally stuff like "moral duty to do X in Y situation" and whatnot)

Comment author: TimS 14 September 2012 02:22:56AM 0 points [-]

As far as I can tell, everyone who thinks suffering is additive is obligated to choose torture. Only if one denies that suffering can always be compared in an additive way is one free to reject torture and choose specks.

That means one's evaluations of degree of suffering inherently have a discontinuity somewhere. Thus, one is vulnerable to being dutch-booked/money-pumped by a sufficiently powerful and cruel adversary.

If this discussion about the possible additive nature of suffering/utility is alien to one's moral reasoning, one might be able to escape the dilemma.

Comment author: DaFranker 14 September 2012 02:36:30AM 1 point [-]

I'm not sure I understand why you use the word "discontinuity" here. In mathematical language, it's easy to have a continuous function of perpetually-rising value that never reaches a certain value - just put an asymptote.

If instances of dust specks are being counted in this manner, it's pretty easy to have the asymptote always be inferior to the torture-time.

...but I'm probably misunderstanding part of the discussion, on second thought.

Comment author: TimS 15 September 2012 01:49:44AM 0 points [-]

This post makes the point in more detail.

Comment author: nyan_sandwich 14 September 2012 04:09:26PM 0 points [-]

but I'm probably misunderstanding part of the discussion, on second thought.

No, your answer is roughly what I was getting at. There is no reason a utility function has to be additive in human suffering.