Gabriel comments on Open Thread, September 1-15, 2012 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: OpenThreadGuy 01 September 2012 08:13AM

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Comment author: Epiphany 02 September 2012 09:50:47AM *  2 points [-]

On introspection biases: For minor things, I wouldn't be surprised if I make errors in judging why I do them, because it can take a bit of rigor to do this well. But if something is important, I can use meta-cognition and ask myself a series of questions (carefully worded - this is a skill I have practiced), seeing how I feel after each, to determine why I am doing something. I carefully word them to prevent myself from taking them as suggestions. Instead, I make sure I interpret them as yes or no questions. For instance: "Does class make me feel attracted?" instead of "Should I feel attracted to class?" - it's an important distinction to make, especially for certain topics like fears. "Am I afraid of spiders because I assume they're poisonous?" will get a totally different reaction (assuming I am not afraid of them) than "Would I be afraid of spiders if I thought they are all poisonous?"

It takes a little concentration to get it right during introspection.

So we'll start with class for example. I ask myself "Do I find class attractive?" and I can ask myself things like "Imagine a guy with lots of money asks me out. How do I feel?" and "Imagine a guy who has things in common with me asks me out, how do I feel?" If you ask enough questions for compare and contrast, you can get pretty good answers this way.

To make sure I'm not just having random reactions based on how I want to feel, I come up with real examples from my recent past. In the last year or so, I have been asked out by or dated a lot of different people with varying amounts of income. There were a lot of guys who are making 6 figures - this is because I tend to attract well paid IT guys. I liked some of them but didn't like all of them. Some of the guys making 6 figures didn't attract me whatsoever. So income doesn't make me like a guy all by itself.

I can ask "Does having a high income make me like them more?"

The two top attractions of all time, for me, were to an underpaid writer and a college student.

I can ask "Does availability of men with lots of money have anything to do with it?"

After dating something like five or ten guys who make around 6 figures over the last year and someodd, the one I liked best actually makes a moderate income. There is another guy that does make a large income that I liked quite a bit. But if the fact that guys who make 6 figures are available was going to interfere, it wouldn't make sense that I'd have liked the guy with a moderate income so much.

So, there are ways to determine what your real motivations are - but it takes skill, and requires more rigor that the quick answers these people are giving in the studies, for sure.

Comment author: Gabriel 02 September 2012 06:18:48PM 7 points [-]

Believing oneself to be an exceptional case was a common failure mode among the subjects of studies summarized in Yvain's article. When confronted with the experimental results showing how their behavior was influenced in ways unknown to them, they would either deny it outright or admit that it is a very interesting phenomenon that surely affected other people but they happened to be the lone exception to the rule.

That doesn't really preclude your introspective skills (I actually believe such skills can be developed to an extent) but it should make you suspicious.

Comment author: Epiphany 05 September 2012 01:23:01AM 0 points [-]

Have you done any reading on cognitive restructuring (psychotherapy)? It's interesting that people on this forum believe this is impossible when a method exists as a type of psychotherapy. Have you guys refuted cognitive restructuring or are you just unaware of it?

Comment author: Gabriel 05 September 2012 05:10:19PM 0 points [-]

I'm aware of cognitive restructuring. Note that I haven't said that introspection is completely useless or even that the specific type of introspection you describe is totally impossible, just that you are very confident about it and there's a common pattern of extreme overconfidence.