Rubix comments on How to tell apart science from pseudo-science in a field you don't know ? - Less Wrong

18 Post author: kilobug 02 September 2012 10:25AM

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Comment author: wedrifid 10 September 2012 03:39:30AM 3 points [-]

This comment seems like it could be perceived as straw-manning. Backing up your statement with evidence that this is an accurate model of what people do with their autistic children would help.

It could be perceived as such. Given the context however it seems that Alicorn isn't making an additional claim about what most people do and is instead adding labels to the behavior that Eugine did actively advocate (or criticise the deprecation of). Even if those things were never done by anyone the adovcation thereof could still be criticized. (And so any weakness in the argument is of a different kind to 'straw man'.)

For better or worse there are the implied premises here that:

  • Doing things that are abhorrent to people for no goddam reason is torture.
  • Stopping people from moving around as they please without good reason is restraining.
  • Ignoring the principle "one thing to try if giving someone an instruction doesn't work is making sure they have it taskified" results in incomprehensibly bossing people around.

The second two seem straightforward and while using the word 'torture' has its own problems the meaning is at least clear.

Comment author: Rubix 10 September 2012 04:53:48AM *  4 points [-]

This comment does all of the things I was concerned about Alicorn's not doing. The conversation I'd expect to ensue from her comment would be an argument over the definitions of "torture," "incomprehensible bossing" &etc, which wouldn't be explicit so much as the bashing together of "Doing these things to autistics is good" and "Doing these things to autistics is evil." I have good reasons to expect this, because it's what I've seen take place subsequent to such a remark a million times and with no positive outcome in any instance. (Add any amount, to taste, of "You're not a real autistic so you can't remark on the subjective experience of the Less High Functioning" and "People are actually being tortured and killed, so I shouldn't have to be nice to you or explain these things out. Therefore I'll just vaguely antagonize at you until you go away.")

I'll also point out that "doing things that are abhorrent to people for no goddamn reason" doesn't pay attention to the fact that people who do e.g. ABA do believe that what they're doing will improve the quality of life of whoever they're doing it to.