Athrelon comments on Politics Discussion Thread September 2012 - Less Wrong

-1 Post author: Multiheaded 05 September 2012 11:27AM

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Comment author: Athrelon 05 September 2012 03:08:22PM *  9 points [-]

80% confidence on the following:

Past economists are simply wrong about human nature. They look at humans in far mode and assume that they would agree to enjoy more leisure and de-escalate materialist status competition. In fact, humans, even wealthy humans, perceive status competition in near-mode as existential struggle. They're willing to work very hard, sacrificing leisure and quality of life, to avoid losing relative status. The fact that we continue to work hard is a fact about human nature not a fact about employee-worker power dynamics per se.

Falsfiable prediction: if a four-day work week were instated, and cultural norms shifted away from work and productivity as the primary domain of status competition, people would redirect the vast majority of their freed-up effort into status-boosting leisure activities, such as exotic travel or conspicuous altruism, much like high-school students diligently doing the "right" extracurriculars.

Comment author: Khoth 05 September 2012 03:29:09PM 19 points [-]

Checkable test: When the 40-hour work week was instated, is this what happened?

Comment author: Rain 05 September 2012 06:56:48PM *  16 points [-]

Alternative check: When France moved to the 35-hour work week (12 years ago), what happened?

Comment author: [deleted] 05 September 2012 10:12:41PM 2 points [-]

This. I'm not an expert in economics, but much of what little I've seen is maths based on assumptions strongly reminiscent of assuming that a fluid has zero viscosity, with very little comparisons of theoretical predictions with empirical data.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 05 September 2012 03:16:06PM 3 points [-]

From what I've heard, people are willing to work very long hours if they get time and a half for overtime. Caveat: I'm not sure how much of this is that they have to take the work as a condition of keeping their jobs. (American?) unions seem to be at least as likely to push for time and a half for overtime as they are to push for shorter work weeks.

On the other hand, Europeans aren't exactly revolting to get longer, better paid work weeks.

Maybe there's no "human nature" on this question?

Comment author: Athrelon 05 September 2012 03:23:12PM *  2 points [-]

My claim is not that workers want longer work-weeks per se. It is that they are willing to work hard to maintain their relative status. The primary domain of status-seeking may certainly shift, from work to academic competition or social/sexual competition or conspicuous altruism.

Status-seeking is the main urge, but in the aggregate people are relatively indifferent about what domain it takes place in.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 05 September 2012 03:36:26PM *  1 point [-]

One thing to check would be how much people sleep in countries that have legal requirements for relatively short work weeks.

Comment author: DanArmak 05 September 2012 08:54:26PM *  1 point [-]

But correlation is still not causation. Maybe people sleep more if they have more free time to fill without health implications.