gwern comments on Under-acknowledged Value Differences - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (68)
I think the problem is that where you can openly describe the conflicts, you can also openly propose game-theoretical solutions. You can say: "We should live in peace with people of Sylvania... but if they attack us, we will not hesitate to fight against them too." And then you can explain why you think this is a good strategy, instead of e.g. us attacking first.
In the gender questions today, we are not culturally allowed to describe the nature of the conflict, which is: different reproduction mechanisms leading to different reproduction strategies leading to conflicts of interest.
So instead of stating our true interests, and negotiating about them, we speak about something else. For example: "It is good if a man must pay child support for a child that is not biologically his, because such policy is good for children." (Instead of admitting openly that such policy allows a woman to increase her utility function, because she does not have to compromise in her choice of partner between his attractiveness and responsibility, and can maximize for attractiveness instead.) On the other hand, forbidding women access to higher education could also be framed as good for children... except that this kind of re-framing was already thoroughly exposed by feminists.
It is difficult to propose a policy of "I will cooperate in Prisonners' Dillemma if and only if you will cooperate", if in the first place you are not allowed to admit that the conflict exists, and if speaking about the payoff matrices is such strong taboo that many people even don't know them.
So instead we randomly optimize for children in some places, and against children in other places, pretending that this is all done around the adult-child axis, and completely unrelated to man-woman axis. (It's adults who have a right for complete freedom of their bodies and everything that happens to be inside; and it's children who have a right for income proportional to their biological father's income. See, this is almost completely gender neutral! But if you try to suggest that instead the children should have a right to live, and adults should have a right for financial freedom, it is culturally allowed to expose how sexist your suggestions are.)
Er... How so? I can't see any reason why I'd rather my mother was less educated than she actually is.
It should only take a second or two to think of possible reasons.
Here's one: Education causes birth rates to plunge. So if existence is a good, then the more you educate women, the more you harm children.
Yeah, I hadn't thought about that -- though IIRC educated men also have fewer children in average. (And personally I lean more to average utilitarianism than total utilitarianism at the moment.)
Men don't get hit as hard, IIRC. And it's not like men have ever been bottlenecks to reproduction - an educated woman can just go use a sperm bank (significantly better than an old husband in terms of birth defects), engage one-night stands, marry downwards, etc.