I don't think we have to argue whether it is the goal-frustration or the pain-quale that is the bad. They are both bad. I don't want to have my goals frustrated painlessly, and I don't want to experience pain even in ways that promote my goals, such as being cattle-proded every time I slip into Akrasia.
And I reject the notion that we can, through introspection, know something more about what it "is like" to be in pain.
It would have been helpful to say why you reject it. If you were in a Mary-style experiment, whre you studied pain whilst being anaesthetised from birth, would you maintinan that personally experiencing pain for the first time would teach you nothing?
I don't want to experience pain even in ways that promote my goals
Don't you mean that avoiding pain is one of your goals?
It would have been helpful to say why you reject it.
It just seems like the default position. Can you give me a reason to take the idea of qualia seriously in the first place?
would you maintain that personally experiencing pain for the first time would teach you nothing?
Yes.
[Cross-posted.]
1. Defining the problem: The inverted spectrum
A. Attempted solutions to the inverted spectrum.
B. The “substitution bias” of solving the “easy problem of consciousness” instead of the “hard problem.”
2. The false intuition of direct awareness
A. Our sense that the existence of raw experience is self-evident doesn’t show that it is true.
B. Experience can’t reveal the error in the intuition that raw experience exists.
C. We can’t capture the ineffable core of raw experience with language because there’s really nothing there.
D. We believe raw experience exists without detecting it.
3. The conceptual economy of qualia nihilism pays off in philosophical progress
4. Relying on the brute force of an intuition is rationally specious.
Against these considerations, the only argument for retaining raw experience in our ontology is the sheer strength of everyone’s belief in its existence. How much weight should we attach to a strong belief whose validity we can't check? None. Beliefs ordinarily earn a presumption of truth from the absence of empirical challenge, but when empirical challenge is impossible in principle, the belief deserves no confidence.