DSimon comments on How about testing our ideas? - Less Wrong

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Comment author: DSimon 27 September 2012 04:42:02PM 2 points [-]

Ack, noticed some tribe blindness in myself here. Out of the examples you list in your last paragraph:

New Atheism, "pragmatic" politics (along the lines of moldbuggery), "PUA", theology-based intellectual traditions like the Jewish ones

I can immediately think of negative effects each of these ideas have on their audiences, except for the first one, New Atheism. Of course (remarkable coincidence!) that happens to be the one that I have personal association with. Can you elaborate on the negative effects you were thinking of when you mentioned New Atheism?

Comment author: Athrelon 27 September 2012 05:39:08PM *  11 points [-]

The bad of New Atheism: Children playing with memetic weapons, with the safety off.

  • It's good at diagnosing problems with existing institutions, bad at understanding people's non-rational but deeply-rooted needs that are currently satisfied by religion.
  • It has failed to create even remotely plausible replacement institutions, due to this lack of understanding.
  • It is fundamentally parochial: it originated from, and continues to narrowmindedly focus on, the internal life of the intellectual 1%, with little understanding or interest in the other 99% of the bell curve.
Comment author: chaosmosis 27 September 2012 04:49:12PM 6 points [-]

Lack of patience, overconfidence, more about signalling intelligence than about persuading religious people, lack of empathy. Those are the problems that came immediately to mind when I thought about it. That's not to criticize all of New Atheism, though. I think I like the basic idea of it.

Comment author: DSimon 27 September 2012 04:58:14PM 1 point [-]

Yes, those all make sense, thank you.

That's not to criticize all of New Atheism, though. I think I like the basic idea of it.

And I am also a fan of at least a good subset of each of the other three examples. It's just good, as you say, to remember how fraught with nasty side effects this whole self-improvement thing can often be.

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