Konkvistador comments on Any existential risk angles to the US presidential election? - Less Wrong

-9 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 20 September 2012 09:44AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 06:02:40PM *  7 points [-]

When I vote, I get the moral right to complain about other peoples' votes, and therefore to complain about the actions of the government these votes elect.

That right is worth the 20 min I need to spend to go vote, even without any consideration of the consequences of voting collectively.

How remarkable, a 20 minute ritual can confer on me new moral rights, I feel like being a Catholic all over again! But let us now discuss how many angels can dance on that particular pin.

Do people who aren't allowed to vote allowed to complain? Like children, teenagers and convicts? Also illegal immigrants and foreigners who live legally in the country but don't have citizenship?

Do I still get to complain about judicial decisions that aren't influenced by votes? Do I get to complain about old laws? Do I have the moral right to complain if I'm wronged, say my human rights violated?

If the personal is the political as some claim, have I lost all right to moral judgement because I'm a non-voter? Us non-voters if you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?

Also I should remind you that unfortunately (since I want to get rid of all politics), deciding not to vote is a political act as well. By not voting I show I do not think this whole democracy thing is a legitimate regime, I will obey its laws for I am small and the state is big. I am the regime's subject of this there is no doubt, but I have no wish, and there is of yet no law, to force me to play in the mummer's farce of citizenship.

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 20 September 2012 06:19:59PM *  -1 points [-]

How remarkable, a 20 minute ritual can confer on me new moral rights,

You find such a thing strange? When I buy a coffee, the ritual of giving the coffee-shop owner a coin of specific worth confers on me the moral right to drink the coffee I just bought.

Do people who aren't allowed to vote allowed to complain?

Yes.

Do I still get to complain about judicial decisions that aren't influenced by votes?

Yes.

Do I get to complain about laws?

Only if you choose to vote against the laws you complain about, when given said chance.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 07:07:35PM 0 points [-]

You find such a thing strange? When I buy a coffee, the ritual of giving the coffee-shop owner a coin of specific worth confers on me the moral right to drink the coffee I just bought.

I don't recall buying a cup of democracy. I don't recall agreeing to this system of government at all, and darn it I can't seem to find a party that wants to abolish it either.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 06:31:15PM *  0 points [-]

Since we just agreed rights are mostly incoherent, can you please restate the argument for voting without reference to them?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 20 September 2012 06:33:53PM -2 points [-]

You're confusing me with Athrelon.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 06:35:11PM 0 points [-]

Ah my apologies.

Comment author: asparisi 20 September 2012 06:38:16PM -2 points [-]

Downvoted for unnecessary levels of disdain.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 07:05:20PM 0 points [-]

I don't think so, I was responding to an argument free asserting that basically called my behaviour immoral.

Comment author: asparisi 20 September 2012 08:58:26PM 2 points [-]

The argument asserts that my behavior is immoral as well, and yet somehow I managed to restrain myself from caustic, unhelpful language.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 06:11:42PM -2 points [-]

Rituals that confer new moral rights? That's Catholic!

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 09:19:36PM -2 points [-]

By not voting I show I do not think this whole democracy thing is a legitimate regime

No, you only show that you can't be bothered to spend 20 minutes to vote. Otherwise you would vote and spoil the ballot.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 09:25:28PM *  0 points [-]

I kind of consider that the same as non-voting, but yeah I've done that too when I accompanied others on their way to voting.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 06:22:07PM -1 points [-]

I am genuinely interested to know what your preferred alternative to politics is. Don't get me wrong, I have a couple of preferred alternatives myself. I want to see how closely our alternatives match.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 06:28:01PM *  4 points [-]

Futarchy for starters. Neocameralism proposed by Mencius Moldbug might work better but is risky. City state oligarchies. Anarchy-Capitalism if you can get it. A Republic with limited franchise if you can keep it. A properly set up monarchy. Even democratic technocracy, where democratic element would have about as much role in governance as the Monarchy part does in the Constitutional Monarchy of the United Kingdom. Arguably we are nearly there anyway.

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 20 September 2012 06:32:53PM *  2 points [-]

Futarchy for starters

Which surprisingly does not mean "the rule by women with male genitalia".

Comment author: fubarobfusco 20 September 2012 10:12:38PM -2 points [-]

Nor rule by fĂștbol.