ArisKatsaris comments on Any existential risk angles to the US presidential election? - Less Wrong

-9 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 20 September 2012 09:44AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 07:58:38PM *  3 points [-]

You pay with your vote (or other attempts to influence the political outcome), you get the moral right to complain about the collective idiocy of others.

I disagree. I'm having trouble understanding it, could you perhaps just stay away from metaphors and explain your moral reasoning here?

(you would have already lost the moral right to complain by helping depriving the legal right to complain from others)

First off I'm not sure which process you are using to make this moral judgement, so I'm unsure whether I grant your moral reasoning any weight or not. Secondly can you please make this for the sake of the debate a bit less personal? Considering the spirit of generosity we usually see on LW I'm quite shocked to see statements like this. You really won't be changing minds with this, least of all mine. I find if funny that fewer unfavourable things where said about my morality when I was arguing in favour of infanticide in a different thread... Voting is probably sacred to some people.

Regardless, If you check out my comment history I've strongly favoured freedom of speech and freedom of conscience in nearly every discussion I've had. Doesn't that buy me something in your moral system too?

If you really really want the right to complain (whether legal or moral), it's unlikely you'll find a system more suited for it than democracy.

I disagree here. Futarchy would provide at least as much and Neocameralism should in theory provide more freedom of speech than I currently have.

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 20 September 2012 08:31:17PM *  0 points [-]

I'm having trouble understanding it, could you perhaps just stay away from metaphors and explain your moral reasoning here?

Okay,

  • "complaining about a person's vote" can mean two things: Either that I believe "they should have voted differently" or that I believe "they should not have voted at all.".

  • Therefore to have the moral right to honestly complain about their vote, I must either believe "everyone should have voted differently" or I must believe "everyone should not have voted at all."

  • Since I don't believe society would be better if nobody voted, then the only option I have if I want this moral right to complain is "they should have voted differently".

  • And therefore it would be hypocrisy if I likewise hadn't myself gone to vote differently.

Now, the thing you're not getting is that I'm not really judging you. My first comment was about how it bought me the moral right to complain. Someone who really thinks the world would be better if nobody voted is exempt from this particular line of reasoning. Because as you said, non-voting can be a political act too.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 September 2012 08:55:58PM *  1 point [-]

Up voted for corresponding to my request for elaborating your argument.

Edit: Is it wrong to reward people elaborating their argument?