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Konkvistador comments on EY "Politics is the Mind Killer" sighting at Washington Examiner and Reason.com - Less Wrong
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This pretty much implies that women aren't included in "we"-- hardly the only thing wrong with the statement, but an additional irritant.
Historically raids where mostly a male thing and women where part of the expected plunder. Such things where rather common, this is why In many countries symbolical kidnapping of the bride is part of wedding celebrations.
I'm not objecting to gender differences in who does the raiding, I'm objecting to assuming that the reader is male and then encouraging the reader to only identify with the raiders.
I actually think politics is what makes it possible to organize raids on other villages, and also what makes it possible to sometimes prevent raids from happening, but let's try some other phrasings for h-H's original quote.
"If we didn't have politics, we'd have no way of stopping raids on other villages, and we'd be enduring theft, kidnapping, and rape." (I've heard that there are cultures where women do the deciding and men do the fighting.)
"If men didn't have politics, we'd be subject to raids." (I'm having a surprisingly hard time phrasing a woman-centered version of the quote. I don't think this is because there's something unrealistic about it, I think it's because a mode that's as woman-centered as the original is male-centered is very rare.)
"Politics are the only way the human race found to avoid small-scale conflict."
I was encouraging the reader not to identify with either raiders or victims.
Then I'm missing something. How were you doing that?
I think that what Nancy thought problematic was not the assumption that men would raid and women would be plundered, but the assumption that "we" would raid rather than be plundered--i.e. that "we" are only men.
Exactly.
I used to see that sort of "real people are men" statement as a sort of humorous gusto in slightly poor taste, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's how it's intended. I've since realized that it also has an effect on availability bias.
The choice of the word "steal" instead of "kidnap" was the tipoff on the status of women.
A particular Chinese custom springs to mind:
The bride stays in a 'fortified' location with all her female friends The groom is supposed to round up his male friends and get past the defenders to steal away the bride. Bribes of money (in ceremonial little red envelopes) are the most common way to get past the defenders, but sneaking is also okay, and some of the male friends are supposed to 'distract' some of the female friends.