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NancyLebovitz comments on Female Test Subject - Convince Me To Get Cryo - Less Wrong
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Trying to live forever is associated with evil (religious cached thought):
I'm not religious, but was raised Christian. Annoying as this is, I still find religious cached thoughts sometimes. I don't want to keep them - I'm sharing for the sake of documenting all the thoughts that are being triggered while I make my decision. Thinking about signing up for cryo triggered this:
My cached thought is associating living forever with being tempted by the devil, and seeing it as a thing that only sinful people would do.
I realize that I would not be guaranteed everlasting life. Even if I was revived, I expect it would be for a much shorter time than "forever". That wouldn't change the fact that I'm mortal or circumvent the threat of hell. I'm not sure where the sense of defiance comes from. I suppose it would defy the current way of things but expecting life forms to just shut up and die is silly.
I don't see why extending your life would have to qualify as sinful. It just makes sense.
Thanks for posting that-- I wasn't raised Christian, and that objection never would have occurred to me. Do you have a feeling for whether it might be a common Christian objection? The Christian objection I've heard is that great longevity means putting off going to Heaven. I've never heard a Christian say that great longevity increases the odds of repenting and avoiding Hell.
My exposure to anti-longevity/immortality thoughts are from science fiction and fantasy, which doesn't just have a wide streak of "you'd need evil methods" (see also Bug Jack Barron, in which it takes killing poor children for something from their glands), but a very strong streak of "if you were immortal, you wouldn't like it". You'd be bored or you'd go mad. I think it's sour grapes.
Common Christian Objections: (Guesses, as I am no longer a Christian) and rebuttals (Within the Christian religious framework, as it's not always feasible to convince them to be Atheists).
1.) You're trying to get something that's forbidden. (Life is important, so God must control it, if you were supposed to have more, you would already have more. Therefore trying to get more should be viewed as bucking a limitation.)
Rebuttal: If you attribute other medical breakthroughs to God, how do we know God didn't give this to us, too?
2.) Only God should decide when you die. (He forbids you from living longer except at his discretion.)
Rebuttal: Why should I believe that a loving God expects me to just shut up and die?
3.) You're making a deal with the devil. (Because only God should decide.)
Rebuttal: Nobody asked me for my soul or to do anything evil to sign up for cryo. The ten commandments don't tell me not to. In fact "You shall not murder." may be interpreted as an obligation to continue your own life wherever possible, otherwise you're knowingly choosing to die when it isn't necessary, thereby "murdering" yourself. I see no evidence that this is temptation by the devil.
4.) You're tinkering with the sacred.
Rebuttal: If life is sacred, and saving lives is an option, isn't it worse to fail to do everything you can to save lives, even if your attempts are somewhere between not perfect and horribly incompetent at first?
During a long life a Christian may repent many times, and sin again many times. Whether they go to Heaven or Hell depends on when they die. Suicide is a mortal sin because otherwise they'd kill themselves after repenting. So they do the next best thing, and repent when they think they're going to die. Confession and absolution on a deathbed are standard. Conversion and baptism on a deathbed are known to happen.
That's a really good argument. If Christians want Atheists to come around, shouldn't they hope we live longer so we have a better chance of finding some reason to believe in God? I'm not religious, and I really doubt any Atheists will "come around", but I think this would work as an argument.
+1 Karma