CronoDAS comments on Causal Diagrams and Causal Models - Less Wrong

61 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 October 2012 09:49PM

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Comment author: CronoDAS 12 October 2012 03:44:23AM 5 points [-]

It is obviously impossible to do the converse experiment where half the subjects are randomly assigned lower weights, since there's no known intervention which can cause weight loss.

There is exactly one such intervention that has been shown to cause persistent weight loss after the intervention period is over. (Starvation also causes weight loss, eventually, but only during the intervention period.)

Comment author: Manfred 12 October 2012 05:36:03AM *  1 point [-]

If my stomach doesn't grow back to full size, sounds like an ongoing intervention to me! :D (Also, since people don't exclude weight loss methods that are long-term plans, I'd bet there are some interesting things that have been shown to work as long-term interventions.)

Comment author: CronoDAS 12 October 2012 08:01:54AM *  0 points [-]

(Also, since people don't exclude weight loss methods that are long-term plans, I'd bet there are some interesting things that have been shown to work as long-term interventions.)

Nope. There haven't been any that have been shown to work.

Comment author: MixedNuts 12 October 2012 09:07:15AM 5 points [-]

I'm told that 5% of dieters keep off the weight long-term. (Interestingly, this is also the success rate of quitting smoking.) Unless 5% of people who don't try to lose weight also lose weight and keep it off, sounds like diets work, just not very well.

Comment author: RobinZ 12 October 2012 04:23:32PM 3 points [-]

Unless 5% of people who don't try to lose weight also lose weight and keep it off, [...]

Is there a standard abbreviation for "I would like to see this testable prediction tested"?

Comment author: novalis 12 October 2012 03:44:25PM 3 points [-]

You would have to compare to how many non-dieters lose weight and keep it off long-term.

Comment author: Kindly 12 October 2012 04:35:56PM 2 points [-]

5% is a very small effect. Not only would you want to see the control group, but you'd need a huge sample size to get anywhere.

Comment author: Manfred 12 October 2012 10:01:27AM *  3 points [-]

Chronic cocaine use. Let's start with the fun stuff and go from there.

Comment author: CronoDAS 17 October 2012 11:10:50AM 1 point [-]

Let me rephrase: There is no such intervention that is considered less dangerous than being obese.

Comment author: Manfred 17 October 2012 03:25:53PM 1 point [-]

I dunno, I feel like you're just patching. Universal statements are always so fragile. Did that drug that made you poop out the fat you ate lead to weight loss? It looks like it's been shown to be effective for at least 2 years. How about appetite suppressants (safer ones than cocaine, that is)? The studies seem to be over shorter time periods, but is that because of safety/effectivess reasons, or just habit?

Comment author: CronoDAS 17 October 2012 06:22:25PM 1 point [-]
Comment author: Blueberry 23 October 2012 07:47:07AM 0 points [-]

What about a small amount of mild stimulant use?

Comment author: CronoDAS 23 October 2012 08:33:19PM 1 point [-]

I dunno. The FDA did approve a couple of drugs this year, but they might only be intended for short-term use.

Comment author: Blueberry 23 October 2012 09:01:08PM 0 points [-]

I know that the antidepressant Wellbutrin, which is a stimulant, has been associated with a small amount of weight loss over a few months, though I'm not sure if this has been shown to stay for longer. That's an off-label use though.

I'd guess that any stimulant would show weight loss in the short-term. Is there some reason this wouldn't stay long-term?

Comment author: CronoDAS 23 October 2012 10:47:00PM 2 points [-]

There are a lot of drugs that people develop tolerances to when used over long periods of time (the body's various feedback mechanisms recalibrate themselves to compensate for the drug's presence), but I can't say with any authority that this applies to mild stimulant use and weight loss.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 October 2012 01:06:16PM *  1 point [-]

I'm pretty sure tolerance to caffeine is a thing, judging from what I see on other people. (I usually abstain from drinking anything with caffeine at least on weekends and holidays to prevent that from happening to me.)