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ChristianKl comments on The Fabric of Real Things - Less Wrong
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A forest does not cause trees, and trees do not cause a forest; they are related, but their relation is of a different kind.
However, if you're willing to abuse definitions a little bit, you can pretend that relation is causal; if you define a forest in terms of things like tree-density, then the forest is "caused by" trees, but it's a causal dead-end which affects nothing in turn. The same holds for neurons and consciousness. However, it would be silly to talk about a bunch of trees in the same place which were not a forest, and similarly silly to talk about a working, talking brain without consciousness.
The debate isn't about whether "consciousness is caused by neurons" is true but whether the specific arguments that Eliezer made in this thread forbid that "consciousness is caused by neurons" and "consciousness doesn't affect neurons" can both be true.
I don't see at all how the argument you are making here has something to do with the rule "For a statement to be comparable to your universe, so that it can be true or alternatively false, it must talk about stuff you can find in relation to yourself by tracing out causal links."
I assume the people arguing that "consciousness is caused by neurons" mean something similar to "the forest is caused by trees" and Eliezer is simply straw-manning/misinterpreting it.
Nope. Epiphenomenalism is motivated by the thought that you could (conceivably, in a world with different laws from ours) have the same bundles of neurons without any consciousness. You couldn't conceivably have the same bundles of trees not be a forest.
Good point, thanks.