chaosmosis comments on The Fabric of Real Things - Less Wrong

16 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 October 2012 02:11AM

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Comment author: chaosmosis 13 October 2012 07:45:16PM *  -1 points [-]

It's ridiculously weak. Even mentioning it is an inefficient use of time and cognitive resources.

To elaborate a little bit more, humans believe all sorts of stuff that is dumb. I don't have any particular reason to believe you're invulnerable to this. I think that your arguments about the implied invisible don't pay rent, and they complicate the way that I define things as real or unreal, so they're not worth believing in. Your attempt to use emotionally laden thought experiments instead of real arguments about epistemology furthers my skepticism about your beliefs. The fact that you insist on using your own preferences as evidence for their justification makes your credibility go even lower, because that evidence is so obviously weak that the only reason you would mention it is if you're extremely biased. Mentioning it is a waste of time; I get no predictive power out of the belief in my daughter who I will never see again.

You might as well argue for the weak existence of an afterlife by saying that you prefer the idea that your daughter still exists somewhere. I suppose that this should make me update my probability that there's an afterlife by about one in a googol, but it's also pretty clear that you're privileging a hypothesis that doesn't deserve it.

Comment author: wedrifid 13 October 2012 08:30:07PM *  1 point [-]

I think that your arguments about the implied invisible don't pay rent

Eliezers, not mine. And they may not "Pay Rent" but they do, evidently, stand between you and the murdering of your siblings. They also constitute a strictly simpler model for reality than the one you advocate.

Your attempt to use emotionally laden thought experiments

Again, not my attempt, it was multiple other people who were all patiently trying to explain the concepts in a way you might understand.

instead of real arguments about epistemology furthers my skepticism about your beliefs.

The arguments were real. They are what you rejected in the previous sentence. This may or may not mean you actually read them.

The fact that you insist on using your own preferences as evidence for their justification makes your credibility go even lower, because that evidence is so obviously weak that the only reason you would mention it is if you're extremely biased.

I wasn't, and I included careful disclaimers to that effect in both comments. I was merely making an incidental technical correction regarding misuse of the word 'evidence'. You made a point of separating your "intuitive judgement" from your abstract far-mode ideals. When people do this it isn't always the case that the abstract idealized reasoning is the correct part. I often find that people's intuitions have better judgement---and that is what I see occurring here. Your intuitions were correct and also happen to be the side of you that is safer to be around without risk of being murdered.

Mentioning it is a waste of time; I get no predictive power out of the belief in my daughter who I will never see again.

Fortunately, current engineering technology is such that your particular brand existence-denial does not pose an imminent threat. As has been mentioned, if we reached the stage where we were capable of significant interstellar travel this kind of thing does start to matter. If there were still people who believed that things magically disappeared once they were sufficiently far enough away from that person then such individuals would need to be restrained by force or otherwise prevented from taking actions that they sincerely believe would not be murder---in the same way that any other murder attempt is prevented if possible.