Matt_Simpson comments on Stuff That Makes Stuff Happen - Less Wrong

51 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 18 October 2012 10:49AM

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Comment author: Matt_Simpson 17 October 2012 02:55:08PM 7 points [-]

Whatever people try to imagine that science supposedly can't analyze, it just ends up as more "stuff that makes stuff happen and happens because of other stuff".

I think said people would object to this - e.g. "God certainly isn't stuff, God is metaphysical!" This, of course, is not problem for causal diagrams. The math allows you to have arrows from metaphysical stuff to physical stuff, which allows you to see occam's razor visually. But it's interesting to think about how to best counter this argument when you're trying to convince your opponent and not just yourself.

Comment author: scav 18 October 2012 03:04:23PM 1 point [-]

Upvoted for:

The math allows you to have arrows from metaphysical stuff to physical stuff, which allows you to see occam's razor visually.

:)

Comment author: DaFranker 18 October 2012 03:10:04PM 1 point [-]

Fun gamble: Make a huge causal diagram as part of the discussion, and once people bring up the metaphysical God argument, point at the whole diagram and say "Okay, if God is metaphysical, then he's the rules by which the diagrams operate. There, look at this diagram. You're looking at God."

I doubt it'd work, but the thought made me chuckle.

Comment author: Manfred 17 October 2012 08:00:38PM 0 points [-]

I suspect the best counter would have been to have seen more steps ahead and given them some abstract causal diagram practice.