mattnewport comments on Beware Trivial Inconveniences - Less Wrong

90 Post author: Yvain 06 May 2009 10:04PM

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Comment author: mattnewport 06 May 2009 10:16:05PM 5 points [-]

How do you feel about allowing the sale of organs?

Comment author: MBlume 06 May 2009 10:22:13PM *  7 points [-]

I fear the massive levels of abuse it could bring -- the possibility that someone would commit suicide because their organs can take care of their family and they can't, that someone's organs could be used as collateral in a loan à la Merchant of Venice, and of course, the temptation to gain the organs of others by force..

On the other hand, I would question what the market value of various organs would stabilize at if everyone were allowed to participate. Perhaps there'd be more potential donors than participants and the prices would stabilize to a reasonable level, discouraging abuse.

Has anyone attempted an analysis on this issue?

Actually, what if it were handled through insurance? What if opting to donate decreased your health insurance premiums by an amount settled at by actuarial tables and the likelihood of your dying with usable organs etc. etc. and then your insurance company got to sell your organs when you died?

Comment author: ansible 10 January 2011 08:34:58PM 5 points [-]

Regarding my insurance company getting to sell my organs after my death...

No. Emphatically no.

This is a very, very bad mis-incentive for the insurance company toward my continued well-being. I'd rather have the current system, where because of continually rising premium rates, the insurance company has the incentive to keep me alive for as long as possible. (Note that I do think the current system is broken as-is, but that is a discussion for another day.)

Comment author: Annoyance 07 May 2009 05:55:53PM 16 points [-]

I fear the massive levels of abuse it could bring -- the possibility that someone would commit suicide because their organs can take care of their family and they can't, that someone's organs could be used as collateral in a loan à la Merchant of Venice, and of course, the temptation to gain the organs of others by force..

Only the last is an abuse. The preceding points were merely uses that you're uncomfortable with.

I wish people would get this straight. Just because you're uncomfortable or disapproving of a particular utilization of a right or ability doesn't constitute an abuse of that right or ability.

Comment author: kragensitaker 11 August 2011 09:02:34PM 5 points [-]

Because "disapproving of" means that the right or ability doesn't comply with the speaker's moral values, while "abuse" means that the right or ability doesn't comply with objectively correct moral values?

Comment author: mattnewport 06 May 2009 10:45:33PM 3 points [-]

the possibility that someone would commit suicide because their organs can take care of their family and they can't

I wouldn't classify that as abuse, but I can see how some would.

and of course, the temptation to gain the organs of others by force

Yes, that seems like the biggest concern.

Has anyone attempted an analysis on this issue?

I'm not sure. There was a story a little while ago that Singapore was considering moves in this direction but it subsequently turned out to be inaccurate.

Your insurance idea is interesting, though it also sounds open to potential abuse.

Comment author: MBlume 06 May 2009 11:07:22PM *  0 points [-]

the possibility that someone would commit suicide because their organs can take care of their family and they can't.

I wouldn't classify that as abuse, but I can see how some would.

Two possibilities:

a) someone rationally chooses such an action because they have no better options.

b) someone is mentally ill, depressed, etc. and drastically undervalues the future worth of their life.

I would consider the fact that a) can happen to be indicative of something fundamentally broken in the society in which it occurs -- there should be better options. Of course, simply disallowing the deal doesn't necessarily address that, merely sweeps it under the rug.

I would consider b) abuse. I consider paternalism to carry with it an intrinsic evil, but there are greater evils, and the loss of a human life because of a potentially temporary confusion is one of them

Comment author: mattnewport 06 May 2009 11:53:24PM 11 points [-]

but there are greater evils, and the loss of a human life because of a potentially temporary confusion is one of them

Even if another human life is saved in the process? That is after all the context here.

Comment author: Princess_Stargirl 21 December 2014 05:19:22PM 2 points [-]

Sounds awesome to me. Some people get organs they need. Others get money. Even the "nightmare" scenarios only really occur when there was a pre-existing and serious problem. Usually the organ sale doesn't make things much worse.