bryjnar comments on Causal Reference - Less Wrong

30 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 20 October 2012 10:12PM

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Comment author: bryjnar 21 October 2012 10:44:31AM 5 points [-]

You've got a more sophisticated notion of causality, but otherwise this is very similar to the causal theory of reference. For example, the way they would describe what's going on with the shadow sneeze variables is that when you name "SNEEZEVAR", there was no causal link that allowed you to pick out the actual SNEEZEVAR: there would need to be a causal arrow going the other way for that to be possible. (and then any later uses of "SNEEZE_VAR" would have to be linked causally to your earlier naming: if we wiped your brain and rebooted it with random noise that happened to be the same, then you wouldn't succeed in referring) I'm pretty sure I've seen someone use a similar kind of example where you can't decide which of two possible things you're referring to because of the lack of a causal link of the right kind.

They also use pretty similar examples: a classic one is to think of an being on the other side of the galaxy thinking about Winston Churchill. Even if they have the right image, they even happen to think the right things about where he lived, what he did etc. it seems that they don't actually succeed in referring to him because of the lack of a causal link. It's just a coincidence.

With that in mind, there are probably arguments made against the causal theory of reference that may apply to you to, but I don't know any off the top of my head.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 21 October 2012 09:24:38PM 3 points [-]

They also use pretty similar examples: a classic one is to think of an being on the other side of the galaxy thinking about Winston Churchill. Even if they have the right image, they even happen to think the right things about where he lived, what he did etc. it seems that they don't actually succeed in referring to him because of the lack of a causal link.

(They could be referring to all objects of class CHURCHILL, but not to our own, particular Churchill, although he happens to be such an object.)