RichardChappell comments on Causal Reference - Less Wrong

30 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 20 October 2012 10:12PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (242)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: RichardChappell 29 October 2012 03:50:59AM 5 points [-]

And this responds to what I said... how?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 October 2012 03:57:32AM 7 points [-]

I can build an agent that tracks how many sheep are in the pasture using an internal mental bucket, and keeps looking for sheep until they're all returned. From an outside standpoint, this agent's mental bucket is meaningful because there's a causal process that correlates it to the sheep, and this correlation is made use of to steer the world into futures where all sheep are retrieved. And then the mysterious sensation of about-ness is just what it feels like from the inside to be that agent, with a side order of explicitly modeling both yourself and the world so that you can imagine that your map corresponds to the territory, with a side-side order of your brain making the simplifying assumption that (your map of) the map has a primitive intrinsic correspondence to (your map of) the territory.

In actuality this correspondence is not the primitive and local quality it feels like; it's maintained by the meeting of hypotheses and reality in sense data. A third party or reflecting agent would be able to see the globally maintained correspondence by simultaneously tracing back actual causes of sense data and hypothesized causes of sense data, but this is a chain property involving real lattices of causal links and hypothetical lattices of causal links meeting in sense data, not an intrinsic quality of a single node in the lattice considered in isolation from the senses and the hypotheses linking it to the senses.

So far as I can tell, there's nothing left to explain.

--

“At exactly which point in the process does the pebble become magic?” says Mark.

“It… um…” Now I’m starting to get confused. I shake my head to clear away cobwebs. This all seemed simple enough when I woke up this morning, and the pebble-and-bucket system hasn’t gotten any more complicated since then. “This is a lot easier to understand if you remember that the point of the system is to keep track of sheep.”