Multiheaded comments on Constructing fictional eugenics (LW edition) - Less Wrong

16 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 October 2012 12:41AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 29 October 2012 06:53:07PM *  11 points [-]

And Western liberal democracies do not torture people? Assassinate them too actually. Create vulgar disturbing cultural trends? Impose arbitrary and harsh punishments out of reasonable proportion? Speaking of unreasonable punishment, Is canning a man really more inhuman than locking him up for several years and exposing him to a double digit chance of rape?

From a utilitarian POV there is nothing you can say about Singapore that outweighs the great strides in quality of life and wealth that the city acquired versus what it would have likely otherwise. How would Africans or Indians vote with their feet if given the chance? One should not speak ill of Singapore until spending time in a less successful "democratic" former British colony elsewhere in the world or a Malay fishing village.

Taking your criticism seriously from the non-utilitarian POV I think you are coming from means condemning democracy for much the same reasons. To give an example, let us take New York city clearly a "democratically" governed realm, yet tell me on the list of criticisms you listed is Montana nearer or Singapore? If you claim the right to be unhappy why don't you shun New York as well as Singapore? The step between them is not that large.

I challenge the wandering reader who may not understand what I'm talking about here to take off their WEIRD glasses and try to view it as a normal human in a wider historical and global context. Which of the two societies is more human?

Comment author: Multiheaded 29 October 2012 07:58:31PM *  -1 points [-]

Speaking of unrasonable punishment, Is canning a man really more inhuman than locking him up for several years and exposing him to a double digit chance of rape?

AFAIK Singapore only canes prisoners in addition to a jail term and not as a replacement for one. Don't know about their prison rape statistics, doubt that any truthful ones are available.

normal human

Y'know what else is normal and human? A lot of things that I shouldn't even have to list to someone interested in ev-psych!

Comment author: [deleted] 29 October 2012 08:06:09PM *  4 points [-]

AFAIK Singapore only canes prisoners in addition to a jail term and not as a replacement for one.

Even if that is the case, kind of a nit pick no? Ceteris paribus it seems likely that if they didn't use caning they'd extent the prison terms. Indeed women aren't canned for example.

Y'know what else is normal and human? A lot of things that I shouldn't even have to list to someone interested in ev-psych!

What if all choices are evil like you say, If I'm a monster maybe I should be the best goddamn monster I can be! Cry havoc, screw morality and be human! Can you not see the romance?

"Why not? I'm here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. I've nurtured every sensation man's been inspired to have. I cared about what he wanted and I never judged him. Why? Because I never rejected him. In spite of all his imperfections, I'm a fan of man! I'm a humanist. Maybe the last humanist."

Guess who says that? Shiver my timbers!

Comment author: Multiheaded 29 October 2012 08:16:08PM *  1 point [-]

Guess who says that?

Heh, I guessed Mephistopheles; was just off by a century or so.

Can you not see the romance?

It's hard not to see; such a simple idea, really. The romance of Christianity suits my refined tastes better :) Like Oscar Wilde once concluded from experience that to sin with abandon might or might not bring bad karma but it's simply the most banal, boring, mainstream thing ever.

Comment author: [deleted] 29 October 2012 08:18:17PM *  5 points [-]

ARrrrghh lad sure you don't want to join me crew? We'll sail for Somalia tomorrow! There be place for Christians on me crew just not very good ones.

Comment author: Rhwawn 29 October 2012 10:25:26PM 5 points [-]

But how shall we divvy up the gold? By backward induction, I infer you will give Multiheaded one coin and the rest of us will slaughter each other!

(I guess this is why our kind can't cooperate.)

Comment author: [deleted] 01 November 2012 09:28:04AM 2 points [-]

Aye the benefit o' having a rational crew!

Comment author: Rhwawn 01 November 2012 04:30:22PM 0 points [-]

The benefit for you maybe - me, I like a ship with a lower Gini coefficient.

Comment author: Multiheaded 29 October 2012 08:23:35PM 0 points [-]

My faith is strong, you dissolute heathen! You can't tempt or bribe me... unless you offer pretty boys, that is. I guess I'm a Catholic at heart :)