Oligopsony comments on Rationality Quotes November 2012 - Less Wrong

6 [deleted] 06 November 2012 10:38PM

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Comment author: Oligopsony 14 November 2012 11:43:53PM -1 points [-]

You're making a category error. Historical materialism just doesn't have anything to say on the subject of morality, certainly nothing so silly as that. At the end of history the universe will be dirt and dust, but I haven't seen any Marxist who cares (though I think I did once encounter someone who concluded from this and Aristotelian teleology that morality is whatever maximizes entropy, lol.)

More generally, even if we can make reasonable claims about what Marxists' and Christians' effective moralities, asking whether these are the same moralities or not is a confused question, for entirely different reasons.

Comment author: thomblake 15 November 2012 04:17:47PM 1 point [-]

At the end of history the universe will be dirt and dust

You're misreading the Marxist "end of history". To Marx, history is the story of class struggle, and so once there are no more classes there is no more history.

Comment author: Multiheaded 15 November 2012 04:50:33PM 0 points [-]

You might both be confusing Marxist and Marxian thought.

Adherents of Marxian economics, particularly in academia, distinguish it from Marxism as a political ideology and sociological theory, arguing that Marx's approach to understanding the economy is intellectually independent of his advocacy of revolutionary socialism or his support of proletarian revolution.

Comment author: thomblake 15 November 2012 05:05:20PM 1 point [-]

I'm certainly not confused, but those trying to make that distinction might be. His political and sociological theories followed directly from his economic theories - refuting the labor theory of value is really sufficient to defeat Marx entirely, or at least eliminate anything that wasn't already said better by Hegel.

Comment author: Multiheaded 15 November 2012 05:14:21PM 0 points [-]

OK, sorry for the superfluous advice then. I have only had a cursory glance at your discussion.

Comment author: ChristianKl 15 November 2012 12:30:12AM 1 point [-]

Marx burrowed the idea of history from Hegel.

For Marx history is the process of social changes. When that process of changes reaches it's end, you have Marx's end of history. For Marx that's a communist society in which all workers get equal pay and life happily ever after. Afterwards there are no social changes, therefore there's no history.

Marx makes a prediction that this communist society will come about. Things that move the world closer to that prediction are morally good for Marx.

Comment author: thomblake 15 November 2012 04:18:39PM 0 points [-]

I think I did once encounter someone who concluded from this and Aristotelian teleology that morality is whatever maximizes entropy

I've seen several compelling arguments along similar lines.

Comment author: wedrifid 15 November 2012 04:43:51PM 0 points [-]

I've seen several compelling arguments along similar lines.

Compelling? Do you mean compelled to reject the premises or compelled to accept the conclusion?

Comment author: thomblake 15 November 2012 05:02:45PM 2 points [-]

Mostly, I was compelled to author the grandparent comment. So not very compelling.