Eugine_Nier comments on 2012 Less Wrong Census/Survey - Less Wrong

65 Post author: Yvain 03 November 2012 11:00PM

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Comment author: Peterdjones 08 November 2012 12:31:41PM 0 points [-]

"left-libertarian" just sounded meaningless.

"The version of left-libertarianism defended by contemporary theorists like Vallentyne, Steiner, Otsuka, van Parijs, and Ellerman features a strong commitment to personal liberty—embracing the libertarian premise that each person possesses a natural right of self-ownership—and an egalitarian view of natural resources, holding that it is illegitimate for anyone to claim private ownership of resources to the detriment of others.[17] On this view, unappropriated natural resources are either unowned or owned in common, believing that private appropriation is only legitimate if everyone can appropriate an equal amount, or if private appropriation is taxed to compensate those who are excluded from natural resources. This position is articulated in self-conscious contrast to the position of other libertarians who argue for a (characteristically labor-based) right to appropriate unequal parts of the external world, such as land.[18"

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 09 November 2012 02:25:10AM -1 points [-]

On this view, unappropriated natural resources are either unowned or owned in common, believing that private appropriation is only legitimate if everyone can appropriate an equal amount, or if private appropriation is taxed to compensate those who are excluded from natural resources.

I don't see how they propose the complex organization necessary for ensuring resources are only appropriated appropriately without severely compromising personal rights and liberties.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 10 November 2012 05:02:14AM *  1 point [-]

One way would be to drive notions of proper appropriation (under whatever scheme) into cultural background as folk knowledge, so the "complex organization" is diffused among individuals rather than being externalized as a state apparatus. In other words, someone making an illegitimate property claim under this regime would not be suppressed by force, but instead mocked and not taken seriously, in the manner of someone who today claims to own the air you're breathing or the idea of birthdays. Only if they resort to force against others would there be a problem.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 10 November 2012 10:21:25PM 1 point [-]

How does that work for things that require violence to enforce?

Comment author: ChristianKl 10 November 2012 10:59:37PM 3 points [-]

The core idea is to avoid enforcing stuff. Self interest individuals who care about their own status won't violate norms because they don't want to lose their status.

Burning Man works pretty well without any rules being enforced through violence.

Comment author: MugaSofer 10 November 2012 10:33:59PM -1 points [-]

It doesn't, obviously. The idea is that those are rare.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 11 November 2012 01:46:44AM 0 points [-]

In that question, "requires violence to enforce" is being used as a one-place function. Is it really one?

Comment author: [deleted] 11 November 2012 01:24:51AM 0 points [-]

Yes. Putting signs reading "private property - do not trespass" is pointless if there are no cops to deter people from trespassing anyway. (You can deter people yourself with a gun, but that'd mean you actually are on your land, which libertarian socialists would call "possession", not "property".)

Comment author: Peterdjones 09 November 2012 11:35:52AM 0 points [-]

Then I gues they just have to use redistributive taxation to iron out the consequences of a necesarily inappropriate distribution of resources.

Comment author: MugaSofer 09 November 2012 12:21:47PM 0 points [-]

With the magic of economics.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 10 November 2012 03:13:55AM 0 points [-]

That only works if your appropriate distribution is the one the market creates, I suspect this isn't the case for left-libertarians.

Comment author: MugaSofer 10 November 2012 06:43:06PM 1 point [-]

Presumably they think it would work.