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Multiheaded comments on Open Thread, November 16–30, 2012 - Less Wrong
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Data point: you probably know I'm left-wing (in an eccentric way) - and yet, frankly, I'm very "pro-Israel" (although not fanatically so), and think that all the cool, nice, cosmopolitan, compassionate lefty people who protest "Zionist aggression" should go fuck themselves in regards to this particular issue. This includes e.g. Noam Chomsky, whom I otherwise respect highly. And I realize that this lands me in the same position as various far-right types whom I really dislike, yet I'm quite fine with it too.
Yes, I'm not neurotypical. However, you know that I can and do get kinda mind-killed on other political topics. So I'm not satisfied by your explanation.
I think what Viliam_Bur is trying to say in a rather complicated fashion is simply this: humans are tribal animals. Tribalism is perhaps the single biggest mind-killer, as you have just illustrated.
Am I correct in assuming that you identify yourself with the tribe called "Jews"? For me, who has no tribal dog in this particular fight, I can't get too worked up about it, though if the conflict involved, say, Irish people, I'm sure I would feel rather differently. This is just a reality that we should all acknowledge: Our attempts to "overcome bias" with respect to tribalism are largely self-delusion, and perhaps even irrational.
I might be identifying myself with the tribe "Nice polite intelligent occasionally badass people who live in a close-knit national community under a liberal democracy", but I really couldn't give a damn about their relation to the Jewish people I know, or to Jewish history, or to any such stuff. I just look at the (relative) here and now of the Middle East and what the people there seem to act like.
I don't personally know anyone from Israel, I just find the Israeli nation massively more sympathetic than its hostile neighbours, observing from afar. I don't know if you meant something like that or not.
I'm wondering if you can unpack what you find "massively more sympathetic" about them?
Let's not really get into this. This conversation is in danger of losing a meta level anyway.
Then my explanation probably does not apply to you, at least in this specific topic. There are other ways people can get strong opinions on something, for example by having a personal experience, or by analogy with something else they already have strong opinions about (based on what you wrote, this would be my guess).
But I think that in a situation like FiftyTwo described, an average person who would happen to have their best friend(s) on one side of the topic, would most likely join them without hesitation.
Maybe.