MrHen comments on Survey Results - Less Wrong

48 Post author: Yvain 12 May 2009 10:09PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (210)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: mattnewport 14 May 2009 06:14:39PM 6 points [-]

I don't know where you've been finding this argument but it's hardly representative of a good argument for libertarianism. I grew up in Europe (well, the UK, which is kind of Europe) with Labour voting parents and grandparents with fairly socialist views and considered myself a socialist into my early 20s. Weak arguments like these wouldn't have been enough to convert me to a generally libertarian worldview.

I had a similar caricature of the views of supporters of the free market (back when I didn't even know the term libertarian) but learning more about economics and being confronted with evidence of better outcomes in freer economies, together with learning that few serious economists (or libertarians) believe in perfectly efficient markets and learning about Public Choice Theory were key in changing my political views.

Key to the economic arguments for libertarianism is the idea that incentives matter and that the incentives facing actors in a free market tend to be far less perverse than those facing politicians or employees of state run monopolies.

The moral arguments stem largely from a view that personal freedom is a high moral value and that the evidentiary bar should be set very high for any demonstration of harm to justify restriction of individual freedoms. That tendency seems to be correlated with certain personality types according to some research and the crossover between libertarians and progressives/liberals on social issues seems to be as much a factor of personal values as of consequentialist reasoning.

And being fairly familiar with UK politics (less so with European politics in other countries) the idea that European politics pick policies based on 'what is estimated to work best' strikes me as pretty laughable.

Comment author: MrHen 14 May 2009 06:52:33PM 1 point [-]

I don't know where you've been finding this argument but it's hardly representative of a good argument for libertarianism. I grew up in Europe (well, the UK, which is kind of Europe) [...]

FYI, "Libertarianism" apparently means something different in the United States than it does elsewhere. This comes from a friend who is currently majoring in Political Science. He claims that "true libertarians would just laugh at American libertarians." I do not know exactly what that means or give any more information, but it sounded relevant to the discussion.

Comment author: Emile 14 May 2009 07:26:03PM 2 points [-]

In France at least, "Libertarians" ("Libertaires") are traditionally left-wing anarchists, US-style Liberterians would be what we call "Liberals" ("Liberaux"), though it seems recently some started calling themselves "liberaux-libertaires".

Comment author: mattnewport 14 May 2009 11:08:07PM 0 points [-]

I hadn't heard the term in the UK before encountering it in discussions with American libertarians online. I believe Classical Liberalism would be the closest term commonly (though not very commonly any more) used in the UK.