Vaniver comments on How minimal is our intelligence? - Less Wrong

55 Post author: Douglas_Reay 25 November 2012 11:34PM

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Comment author: Vaniver 19 November 2012 11:30:10PM 1 point [-]

developing better telescopes which provided more information about the crystalline structure of metals

That doesn't sound like the history of solid state physics / materials engineering that I know; what do you have in mind here?

Comment author: Decius 20 November 2012 04:35:08AM 0 points [-]

Sorry- the need of optics to have metals with certain properties is part of any history of optics, and in order to understand metallurgy one needs to see metals as crystalline, which requires optics superior to those which have been created without applied metallurgy.

There's a certain advantage in that much of materials science can be cheated by experimentation without understanding, such that it is possible to work steel without knowing what steel is.

Comment author: Vaniver 20 November 2012 01:25:21PM *  1 point [-]

I was under the impression that the discovery that metals were crystalline was due to Bragg in 1912, and the wide angles involved don't require significant lens quality.

Metals do have microstructure that's very metallurgically relevant, which can be seen under a microscope (and there lens quality is rather relevant). While understanding the underlying crystalline structure helps the analysis, as you point out the experimentalists were able to find useful alloys and cooling recipes without knowing about the crystalline structure, with some help from knowing the microstructure.

I think the word "crystalline" was what was throwing me off from your description, though it is unclear to me how much advances in optics helped experimental metallurgists.

Comment author: Decius 20 November 2012 05:54:52PM 0 points [-]

Most of the alloying and cooling was developed without even looking at what you call the microstructure. Current-generation optical microscopes are easily capable of observing individual surface crystals under elastic and inelastic deformation.

The effects of a given heat treatment on a given object is fairly simple to measure, but to predict the effect of an untested combination requires deeper understanding. Trial and error can create isolated useful developments, but understanding the next level allows accurate prediction of interesting developments. For example, the effects of alloying agents in iron remain experimentally determined, rather than predicted.