John_Maxwell_IV comments on Responses to questions on donating to 80k, GWWC, EAA and LYCS - Less Wrong

27 Post author: wdmacaskill 20 November 2012 10:41PM

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Comment author: lukeprog 21 November 2012 04:52:07AM *  32 points [-]

Thanks for this.

Another question...

Did those involved with CEA study the literature on human value drift — if so, what did they find? What is CEA's own experience with it?

Examples I've witnessed several times each: Someone plans to do environmental law only but they end up in corporate law. Another person plans to become a professional philanthropist, but then fails to donate later, and instead spends money keeping up with the Joneses. Someone else plans to be a genuine, pleasant person but then they study "pickup artistry" and find that being a manipulative, cocky jerk actually does increase their success with women, and a bit later I discover they're a cocky, manipulative jerk to everyone. (Note to everyone: there are lots of ways to increase one's romantic success without becoming a cocky, manipulative jerk!)

I wish I knew how often this kind of value drift happens. Value drift with regard to professional philanthropy seems to happen a lot in the SI community; maybe it happens less often in communities focused on more "ground-level" causes like poverty reduction? What can be done to prevent it?

Of course, we probably don't want to prevent some kinds of value drift, e.g. value drift that occurs strictly due to encountering new and better information. I used to care a lot about God's will, until I gained information indicating God's non-existence.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 21 November 2012 09:58:04AM 19 points [-]

Hm. It seems like a couple of your examples may involve value drift due to behavioral reinforcement. The behavior of buying expensive stuff gets reinforced when friends act impressed, or the behavior of being a jerk gets reinforced when it gets you laid. If it's entirely behavioral phenomenon, it seems possible that the "value drift" is only a drift in revealed preferences, not reflective ones.

Schelling fences or similar come to mind as a way to prevent this sort of behavior change in oneself ("be a decent person always", "donate 30% of my income").

I've had a fair amount of success detailing policies like these for myself to follow. Typically my policies have associated lag times before policy changes take effect, which I've found to be key for experimenting to see what's convenient, workable, and makes reasonable compromises while not ditching the entire policy whenever I encounter problems. I don't think the effectiveness of these policies is best explained in terms game theory, however. The way it feels from the inside is, if I draw up a policy when I'm in a relatively high-willpower state, it's as though I can "lock in" a bunch of future decisions related to the policy that I'll later make using minimal willpower.

If people are interested in the details of what I've learned makes for effective policy administration, I could probably write a discussion post about it.

Comment author: lukeprog 21 November 2012 11:21:17AM 8 points [-]

I'm interested.

Comment author: William_Quixote 21 November 2012 07:03:16PM 4 points [-]

Also interested

Comment author: negamuhia 26 November 2012 12:28:02PM 3 points [-]

I know it's days later....but I'm interested.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 26 November 2012 09:35:13PM 9 points [-]