cousin_it comments on A Parable On Obsolete Ideologies - Less Wrong

113 Post author: Yvain 13 May 2009 10:51PM

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Comment author: thomblake 14 May 2009 02:37:39PM 9 points [-]

strongly patriotic and have invented new symbols

Being 'patriotic' (or nationalistic) is arguably what started the world wars. Germany definitely has a strong cultural identity and fortunately has stayed away from the horrors of nationalism. Places where people wave flags are scary.

Comment author: cousin_it 14 May 2009 02:56:14PM *  6 points [-]

This might sound blasphemous here, but nationalism doesn't seem to me singularly harmful compared to other belief systems like religions or global ideologies. For example, the Cold War was a conflict between two explicitly internationalist visions of the world and resulted in tens of wars around the globe. If you want to find the root of humanity's woes, dig deeper.

Comment author: JGWeissman 14 May 2009 05:53:20PM 4 points [-]

I think that nationalism, religion, and global ideology are different aspects of the same problem, that they create an in group and an out group which can have conflicts.

And these aspects feed on each other. The Cold War era global ideology that is referred to as "democracy" seems to really be a sort of reversed communism (for example, the Russian government suppressed religion, so the American government violates its founding democratic principals to promote religion) that gained enthusiasm from American nationalism.

Similarly, in the so called "War on Terror", the conflict is portrayed as between Christianity and Islam, to feed the nationalism of those who believe "America is a Christian nation".

Comment author: PhilGoetz 14 May 2009 09:55:39PM 5 points [-]

Similarly, in the so called "War on Terror", the conflict is portrayed as between Christianity and Islam, to feed the nationalism of those who believe "America is a Christian nation".

So, if I interviewed people in the middle east, they wouldn't see it as a conflict between Christianity and Islam?

Comment author: JGWeissman 14 May 2009 11:12:56PM 1 point [-]

Honestly, I don't know. I have a better handle on what politicians and pundits say, and how people react, in America than in the Middle East. Given how many Americans believe that Iraq was involved in destroying the World Trade Center, we have a problem. People are actually thinking "Our enemies are Muslims, therefore Muslims are our enemies."

Comment author: askelon 01 November 2012 02:51:14PM -1 points [-]

No, if you went to the Middle East they would not see it as a conflict between Christianity and Islam. They see it as a conflict between America and terrorist groups.

Comment author: fortyeridania 01 November 2012 03:46:16PM 2 points [-]

Evidence, please.

Comment author: askelon 20 November 2012 03:30:53PM -2 points [-]

How about personal experience?

Comment author: thomblake 20 November 2012 04:26:46PM 6 points [-]

"Personal experience" is not particularly informative. Most people think they have a much better handle on what most people think than they actually do. I know this from personal experience.