army1987 comments on LW Women- Minimizing the Inferential Distance - Less Wrong

58 [deleted] 25 November 2012 11:33PM

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Comment author: SaidAchmiz 25 November 2012 06:13:45AM 8 points [-]

The slander/libel case seems instructive: truth is an absolute defense against the accusation of slander or libel; it's the falsehood of a slanderous statement that harms.

Shouting the times-tables is a problem because of the delivery mechanism, not the content. Shouting anything at the top of your lungs for an hour in a public space is harmful to bystanders, and as you said, "offensive" is not what is wrong here.

"I fucked your mom", if true, is only potentially offensive for something like the following reasons:

  • Swearing in polite company is frowned upon; "I had sex with your mother" is qualitatively different despite having the same content.
  • It's an implication of promiscuity (or low selectiveness of sexual partners) on the part of the target's mother, and our society's views on sexuality derogate promiscuity, turning this empirical statement into an insult. Arguably, this is a problem with society's views on sexuality ("slut shaming"), rather than the fact that informing someone about their sexual encounters with that person's mother is inherently offensive.

In short, I don't think I buy your claim that "Some empirical statements, orthogonal to truth or falsity, are offensive." At least, I'd like to see it supported better before I consider it. This isn't simply contrarianism; I think that the ability and right to say true things regardless of whether someone finds those truths unpleasant is extremely important, and social norms to the contrary should not be adopted or perpetuated lightly.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 November 2012 10:11:39PM *  2 points [-]

Arguably, this is a problem with society's views on sexuality ("slut shaming"), rather than the fact that informing someone about their sexual encounters with that person's mother is inherently offensive.

I'd rather there existed no such thing as slut shaming in my society, but in most situations I would still be pissed off if someone had sex with you while in a committed monogamous relationship with someone else without their knowledge and consent, in particular if said someone else is someone I know e.g. my father.

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 25 November 2012 11:52:40PM 3 points [-]

I'm having a bit of trouble parsing your comment. Are you saying that if Bob had sex with your mother, you'd be pissed off at Bob, because this would mean that your mother has cheated on your father with Bob...? Fair enough, I suppose, though it seems to me that Bob in this situation isn't the one who's broken any promises/agreements; in general the blame for cheating seems like it should be assigned to the cheater, not the person he/she is cheating with.

... but this thread is probably fast approaching an entirely too tangential state relative to the main post.

Comment author: [deleted] 26 November 2012 11:42:22AM *  4 points [-]

in general the blame for cheating seems like it should be assigned to the cheater, not the person he/she is cheating with.

Yes, it'd be my mother I'd mainly be pissed off at; but if Bob was aware she was married (and in that hypothetical he definitely is aware she's my mother -- though he might have found that out later)...

... but this thread is probably fast approaching an entirely too tangential state relative to the main post.

Agreed.