TorqueDrifter comments on LW Women- Minimizing the Inferential Distance - Less Wrong

58 [deleted] 25 November 2012 11:33PM

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Comment author: SaidAchmiz 25 November 2012 06:13:45AM 8 points [-]

The slander/libel case seems instructive: truth is an absolute defense against the accusation of slander or libel; it's the falsehood of a slanderous statement that harms.

Shouting the times-tables is a problem because of the delivery mechanism, not the content. Shouting anything at the top of your lungs for an hour in a public space is harmful to bystanders, and as you said, "offensive" is not what is wrong here.

"I fucked your mom", if true, is only potentially offensive for something like the following reasons:

  • Swearing in polite company is frowned upon; "I had sex with your mother" is qualitatively different despite having the same content.
  • It's an implication of promiscuity (or low selectiveness of sexual partners) on the part of the target's mother, and our society's views on sexuality derogate promiscuity, turning this empirical statement into an insult. Arguably, this is a problem with society's views on sexuality ("slut shaming"), rather than the fact that informing someone about their sexual encounters with that person's mother is inherently offensive.

In short, I don't think I buy your claim that "Some empirical statements, orthogonal to truth or falsity, are offensive." At least, I'd like to see it supported better before I consider it. This isn't simply contrarianism; I think that the ability and right to say true things regardless of whether someone finds those truths unpleasant is extremely important, and social norms to the contrary should not be adopted or perpetuated lightly.

Comment author: TorqueDrifter 25 November 2012 11:31:23PM 3 points [-]

"I could rape you right now, and there's nothing you could do about it."

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 25 November 2012 11:55:22PM 4 points [-]

Interesting example. My intuition here is that while this is phrased as a statement, the implication is that of a threat. That does not seem to be the case for the other examples in this thread.

Question: is the main problem with "I could rape you right now" that it's offensive, or that it's threatening, i.e. that it makes the hearer feel unsafe in the presence of the speaker?

Comment author: TorqueDrifter 26 November 2012 03:14:54AM 4 points [-]

So, then, I guess I provisionally agree that a factual statement minus any sort of opinion, implication, social role, etc., including the fact that it was stated instead of nothing or instead of other statements, is probably not offensive. This is a pretty weak claim, though!