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MugaSofer comments on LW Women- Minimizing the Inferential Distance - Less Wrong

58 [deleted] 25 November 2012 11:33PM

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Comment author: JulianMorrison 27 November 2012 02:15:28AM *  -3 points [-]

Don't ask for a source of something that clearly is an interpretation of observation not a study. That's pretty clearly acting dismissively.

And you know what I mean about claiming ownership too. Those comments are said by men to women in a particular way that is more intrusive and different from the way they are said to you. You are being dismissive here too.

Comment author: MugaSofer 27 November 2012 02:25:23AM 1 point [-]

Don't ask for a source of something that clearly is an interpretation of observation not a study. That's pretty clearly acting dismissively.

I would like to know what evidence you have for your claims. Without evidence, yes, I'm going to dismiss them, because they fit a profile of stereotyping that, in my experience, is tied to factually wrong statements about my gender.

And you know what I mean about claiming ownership too.

I have my suspicions, but that doesn't address my point.

Those comments are said by men to women in a particular way that is more intrusive and different from the way they are said to you. You are being dismissive here too.

I was suggesting that sexual comments and greetings may have different causes. Since I receive greetings that sound similar to the ones described from people who are almost certainly not viewing me as a potential partner, it seems likely that they are received regardless of gender, unlike catcalls.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 27 November 2012 12:44:25PM 2 points [-]

'Ownership' might be putting it too strongly, but it's definitely a claim on the other person's attention for something which is of no conceivable value to the person who's attention is being claimed.

Comment author: JulianMorrison 27 November 2012 02:32:07AM -1 points [-]

You don't have experience, and you turn away vicarious experience - the inferential distance is too large.

Comment author: MugaSofer 27 November 2012 02:43:05AM 5 points [-]

I have the experience of being a male and having other males make unsolicited greetings, which makes me uncomfortable and generally resembles what Nancy reported. Since I doubt the same phenomenon is responsible for the greetings I receive and the "catcalling"many women report, I suggested that Nancy's experiences had a different cause to regular, sexual catcalling. I may have made some sort of error, but if so I would prefer you point it out rather than baldly accuse me of a failure of empathy.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 27 November 2012 12:48:54PM 5 points [-]

For what it's worth, every stranger who's given me an unwanted "How are you doing?" has been male, and the incidence has dropped off strikingly as I've hit menopause.

I do think there's a sexual element, and for all I know, there was one in the unwanted greetings from men that you've gotten.

However, please note that I raised the question about whether the relatively mild "How are you doing?" should be counted among catcalls. The thing that people usually complain about is more overtly sexual and/or gendered, and frequently hostile to start with or becomes hostile if rejected.

Comment author: MugaSofer 27 November 2012 05:23:07PM 3 points [-]

I wasn't trying to make any claims about catcalling, merely supplying evidence that "how are you doing" is a different phenomenon.

... I have to say, the possibility that it's sexual is there - I have long hair, long enough that I've been mistaken for female (more so before I hit puberty, of course.) But my name is used fairly often, so I suspect I'm just more recognizable than skilled at recognizing others.

Comment author: TorqueDrifter 27 November 2012 05:29:19PM 3 points [-]

my name is used fairly often

This seems like an important detail.