gwern comments on LW Women- Minimizing the Inferential Distance - Less Wrong

58 [deleted] 25 November 2012 11:33PM

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Comment author: NancyLebovitz 27 November 2012 01:01:49AM 13 points [-]

I agree with you, though I'd phrase it as "men's problems should be taken more seriously" rather than "it's unfair that women's problems are taken seriously."

It's taken a lot of work (not yet complete) over a long period to get women being raped taken seriously, let alone lesser issues.

Hypotheses about why the abuse of men is barely on the agenda: There's even more prejudice against men who've been hurt than against women who've been hurt. Men aren't as good at organizing to be heard, which overlaps the first hypothesis. Women have formed an interest group on the subject which is preventing men from being heard. Other suggestions? Suggestions for action?

For what it's worth, I believe that men frequently have a worse deal than is publicly acknowledged. I've been expecting sexual abuse of men and boys by women to show up on the public agenda. No one seems to believe me.

Comment author: DaFranker 27 November 2012 03:02:36PM 1 point [-]

For what it's worth, I believe that men frequently have a worse deal than is publicly acknowledged. I've been expecting sexual abuse of men and boys by women to show up on the public agenda. No one seems to believe me.

Japanese fiction is often way ahead of the curve in such things, for some reason. One indicator here is their erotic manga specifically, which have been featuring terrifyingly high amounts of exactly what's said in the quote in the past couple years, and in growing proportion.

(Which implies that there's a market out there in japan of tens-or-hundreds of thousands of people buying and presumably enjoying erotic manga fantasies of men being sexually abused and raped by women -- not directly that this is a common real-life thing. The question after that is, how did this market get created, and where does the inspiration for the artists come from?)

Comment author: gwern 27 November 2012 06:22:25PM 2 points [-]

One indicator here is their erotic manga specifically, which have been featuring terrifyingly high amounts of exactly what's said in the quote in the past couple years, and in growing proportion.

There are numbers for this?

Comment author: DaFranker 27 November 2012 06:39:40PM 0 points [-]

The easier-to-get numbers are simply number of hits for specific tags.

However, yes, there are all kinds of numbers for this. Most large-scale or popular cons in japan AFAIK keep fairly accurate records of circles' sales, and number of new releases in a genre or catering to particular tastes is usually strongly correlated with how well the big names in those genres/tastes have been selling in the near past, in my observations.

Comment author: gwern 27 November 2012 07:17:54PM 3 points [-]

As far as I know, the conventions have been racking up record growth throughout the 2000s and 2010s, so unless you've run the numbers you can't really say anything about the proportion - since everything has been increasing so much.

Comment author: DaFranker 27 November 2012 07:40:58PM *  1 point [-]

Well, my most important specific piece of evidence is that the ratio of scanlations tagged both "femdom" and "forced" out of all those tagged "forced" on certain databases has increased very significantly over the last three years.

I'm very reluctant to disclose my sources on this for social, signaling and personal reasons. I hope some of them are obvious. (also, in public with permanent records?)

Comment author: gwern 27 November 2012 07:49:47PM 2 points [-]

Eh, databases. Convention records are much more convincing.

Comment author: DaFranker 27 November 2012 07:51:49PM *  0 points [-]

True. Now that this topic has been brought to light and I realize it's a more serious issue than I had mentally filed it as, I might actually go look at some of those (along with other stuff I would want to find numbers for first, since this isn't the most important metric by any stretch). They're pretty hard to get, though.

Comment author: gwern 27 November 2012 08:50:50PM 0 points [-]

Comiket posted some interesting stats in http://www.comiket.co.jp/info-a/WhatIsEng080528.pdf so getting them might be as hard as asking?

Comment author: DaFranker 27 November 2012 08:56:41PM *  0 points [-]

Hmm. But Comiket is far from representative in this field. I'm erring on the side of: Asking a japanese convention host known for their erotic doujin content about their sales and stats, and them actually sending them to you, is going to be a bit more complicated than just and email saying "Hey, could you show me your stats and detailed sales records for the past few years?" (NTM they might not even know English)

Of course (unsurprisingly in retrospect), my "they're pretty hard to get" belief is cached and wasn't updated in quite a while, so I was probably overconfident in that statement.