All three are different, particularly when explicitly presented as contrasting alternatives, which wouldn't be the case for the original listener. If given in the same tone, the first two are fairly equivalent, it's just that the first would tend to be presented in a more negative tone more often.
One fair point to remember - we received the report from someone clearer hostile to the first speaker. What's your prior that this is meant as an exact quote? That it is an accurate exact quote, if so meant? If not exact, more likely the quote given was marginally worse or better than the original comment?
The original guy could have been completely hostile, with a sneering and demeaning tone. Admittedly it's a mountain of inference we're dealing with, as it was for the original commenter here. That's why I hate this whole business of playing psychic detective in the first place. What will someone think of this word? What did they mean by that word? What a tiresome way to live. Makes my teeth hurt just thinking about it. Most likely, the guy wasn't thinking that hard and was just flapping his mouth to make conversation. Me, I deliberately try to squelch ruminations of hostile intent, and take people at face value.
That's seems a weakness of this whole series. It's all about inferring motive on a thimble full of evidence. Without us all watching a movie of events, we're all talking to different movies we've constructed in our own heads. What unreasonable conclusions people are drawing from what happened! (In my movie!)
The poster here seemed hostile to me. Maybe there was good reason for it based on the emotional tone of the original statement. Given my priors and the comment here, I'd still bet against it, but could be.
The "actually" implies that the target has already made an indication of reading LW, and that the speaker is asking for verification of that indication.
Didn't happen in my movie. Certainly, if the guy originally was suggesting that the woman was a liar about a claim she made about reading LW, that's an entirely different movie. And, I think literally, a different story in fact, as my prior for that scenario is vanishingly low. Don't you think that would have been a relevant part of the story to relay in the first place, if it was indeed the case? Why would the poster leave it out, when it so well suited her narrative? People aren't likely to do that.
EDIT: For people downvoting army1987's comment below, I suggest you're missing the point and blocking valuable content on Postel's Law. I missed the point originally because I jumped to the link and found it idiotic, and didn't take the time to decipher SCNR - sorry, could not resist.
He's made a valid point about intent not being a get out of being a dick free card, made in a tongue in cheek manner with a pointer to a raving post, or so I take it. The SCNR warning should immunize him from karma downvotes, IMO.
The SCNR warning should immunize him from karma downvotes, IMO.
I've just noticed the extra layer of irony in that comment which I hadn't realized (or perhaps I had forgotten) was there.
Standard Intro
The following section will be at the top of all posts in the LW Women series.
Several months ago, I put out a call for anonymous submissions by the women on LW, with the idea that I would compile them into some kind of post. There is a LOT of material, so I am breaking them down into more manageable-sized themed posts.
Seven women replied, totaling about 18 pages.
Standard Disclaimer- Women have many different viewpoints, and just because I am acting as an intermediary to allow for anonymous communication does NOT mean that I agree with everything that will be posted in this series. (It would be rather impossible to, since there are some posts arguing opposite sides!)
To the submitters- If you would like to respond anonymously to a comment (for example if there is a comment questioning something in your post, and you want to clarify), you can PM your message and I will post it for you. If this happens a lot, I might create a LW_Women sockpuppet account for the submitters to share.
Please do NOT break anonymity, because it lowers the anonymity of the rest of the submitters.
Notes from Daenerys:
1. I'm not on this site very much anymore, so I'm going to try to remember to post these about once a week to get them off my to-do list. So the next couple weeks might have a lot of gender discussion, but I only have 2 left, so it will be done soon.
2. This post ended up being less anonymous. Please do NOT link to any identifying information.
3. There were some questions recently about the purpose of this series, which makes sense because the purpose was discussed 8 months ago, which is a pretty long time, by LW standard. Shortly, by virtue of the gender ratio here (90% male), the men's voices tend to drown out the women's voices, and many women may just not post on certain issues due to the feeling of swimming upstream, so this was a way to compile a bunch of LW women's opinions and thoughts. Note that, going by the latest LW survey there are less than 100 women on here, so each submitter is over 1% of the total female readership of LW. Here is the original call for responses, and the original discussion of the LW Women series idea.
Submitter C
I wasn't going to write, but something happened at today's meetup that really irked me.
A man turned to a young woman near him and asked, "So, do you actually read Less Wrong, or did someone drag you here?" I asked, "Are you saying that because she's wearing heels and lipstick?" "No, no," he answered, flustered. "It's not because of how she's dressed. It's just that most of the women who come here are dragged by someone else." I asked, "Do you think that any woman, no matter why she came here, would feel welcomed by being asked that question?" At that point he began apologizing, and the other woman assured him she wasn't offended.
It really bothered me, though. It seemed like a basic failure to think about the consequences of his words. Apparently his hypothesis was "Most female meetup attenders do not read Less Wrong." It's fine to have that hypothesis (although I think it's incorrect), but it's different to test it in a way that's likely to offend. If you really want to find out if she reads the site, ask how long she's been reading Less wrong or what her favorite posts are. Don't start by saying, essentially, "I assume you are an outsider." (For the record, he was wrong - she's an avid LW reader.)
If someone doesn't fit the usual Less Wrong demographic, they're probably far more aware of that than you are. If you notice someone doesn't fit your mental model of a Less Wronger, please don't demand that they explain their presence. There are probably other ways to satisfy your curiosity, and if not, your curiosity does not justify making someone else feel they don't belong.
UPDATE from Submitter C
This happened last year, and since that time we've talked about it more. I think it was a genuine mistake/misunderstanding and not a deliberate attempt to alienate anyone. I don't know how the other woman took the whole situation. I know it pushed my you-don't-belong-here button, and I responded based on that. The whole thing would have gone better if I had responded more charitably.