Eugine_Nier comments on LW Women: LW Online - Less Wrong

29 [deleted] 15 February 2013 01:43AM

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Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 February 2013 03:07:28AM *  1 point [-]

Like, if someone wanted to mock this website, that's exactly what they'd write.

I'm not a utilitarian and the arguments like the one I made about utility are part of the reason, if that's what you're asking.

You're probably thinking that a utility function can't prefer "fair" lotteries. But it can prefer fair outcomes, which is what's relevant here.

What's a "fair" outcome? Should we abandon life extension research because it would be "unfair" to those who died before it achieves results?

Comment author: Nisan 17 February 2013 06:14:54PM 7 points [-]

The von Neumann-Morgenstern theorem has nothing to do with utilitarianism, and it's not about what you "should" do. Those words don't appear in the statement of the theorem. The theorem does state that a VNM-rational agent has a preference ordering over lotteries of outcomes. In fact it can have any preferences over outcomes at all and still satisfy the hypotheses of the theorem. In particular, it can prefer fair outcomes to unfair outcomes for any definition of "fair".

If you want to argue that one shouldn't pursue fairness, you don't want to use the VNM theorem.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 February 2013 08:42:21PM 2 points [-]

The von Neumann-Morgenstern theorem has nothing to do with utilitarianism, and it's not about what you "should" do.

Agreed, unfortunately a lot of people around here seem to interpret it this way.

In particular, it can prefer fair outcomes to unfair outcomes for any definition of "fair".

I would argue that fairness is a property of a process rather than an outcome, e.g., a kangaroo court doesn't become "fair" just because it happens to reach the same verdict a fair trial would have.