DanArmak comments on LW Women Submissions: On Misogyny - Less Wrong

27 [deleted] 10 April 2013 07:54PM

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Comment author: someonewrongonthenet 11 April 2013 01:53:15AM *  3 points [-]

Both genders like confidence equally. Both genders like some amount of social dominance, although both genders seem to value it more in men. I don't know how much of that is just culture. If we're talking sexual dominance/submissiveness, I'd estimate 20% of women prefer submissive men, 50% prefer dominant, and 30% don't care - I'm sure we could get that data if we wanted.

That's not the part which is the problem. It's the entailing conclusions about behavior...

even if it means being an asshole and playing on people's insecurities sometimes.

which I don't like. Also, attempts at artificially puffing up ones social dominance are almost never good.

Comment author: DanArmak 11 April 2013 07:15:13PM 3 points [-]

attempts at artificially puffing up ones social dominance are almost never good.

Of course everyone (like you) want to put down people who claim higher status than you think they really have. What makes one's social dominance "artificial" or genuine? Merely the success of convincing others that you are in fact dominant. So your argument (that artificially high dominance is bad) implies that you only dislike unsuccessful PUAs, the ones who fail to raise their status in your eyes.

Comment author: someonewrongonthenet 11 April 2013 08:51:49PM *  1 point [-]

...what I meant by that, is the methods that people usually employ when attempting to puff up social dominance (displays of power and authority, disregard for others, etc) are distasteful.

you only dislike unsuccessful PUAs, the ones who fail to raise their status in your eyes.

That's sort of true, but the order of events is reversed, and we need to unpack "status".

If I identify someone using unethical behavior, I dislike them, thereby lowering their social status.

To become a "successful" PUA (one that raised his/her status in my eyes) one would need to refrain from behavior I perceive as distasteful. Obviously, this includes refraining from all behaviors that I define as immoral.

Unpacking status: Perceptions of "dominance" and perceptions of "liking" are separate. Dominance is decided by power hierarchy within a group - for example, I'll almost always perceive my boss as "dominant", but if she exerts authority unfairly I will see her as dominant and unlikeable, whereas if she is charismatic and helps me achieve my goals I will see her as dominant and likeable.