John_Maxwell_IV comments on Religion, Mystery, and Warm, Soft Fuzzies - Less Wrong

17 Post author: Psychohistorian 14 May 2009 11:41PM

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Comment author: hrishimittal 15 May 2009 10:19:05AM 6 points [-]

there's a warm fuzziness to life that science just doesn't seem to get

Not true. Science helps create new warm fuzzies whereas religion has been re-using the same old one for millennia. The problem with religion is not that it lets people have warm fuzzies but that it provides false explanations.

For example, the building in Ireland that is discussed in the first BHTV episode: I imagine the warm fuzzies one gets on visiting that place are to do with the atmosphere that has been created, that rare experience of the sunlight breaking through carefully crafted openings in dark walls. It must be beautiful because it's scarce in both time and space. That's why it works. No one needs to know that to enjoy it. But here's the problem: religion's claim is that it's only by believing in God that such a beautiful thing has been possible. Which is not true. It has been made possible through people's imagination, engineering and hard work.

The point is that with religion, it's easy to forget that more is possible.

For example, imagine this future: one group of people builds a beautiful monument for another group of people as a gift. Most people in the second group would enjoy the sheer beauty of it, while some curious others could get extra warm fuzzies by figuring out how the first group made it.

certain religious stories and artwork may be of artistic value.

Yes, they certainly are. But I imagine a future where religious stories and art will pale in comparison to the ones people create without resorting to harmful lies.

His point seems to be that rationality isn't the only way to experience the world, which is absolutely, 100% right.

But it's the one that wins. And people do want to win.

You don't experience the world through rationality.Appreciating art, or food, or sex, or life is not generally done by applying rationality.

Right. It's done through intelligence, that's why rats don't paint. Remember EY's intelligence scale? The distinction is not between village idiot and Einstein. It's between amoeba, chimps, humans and higher intelligences.

And this I think is the biggest problem and it has been mentioned before.

Right now, individual rationality is bounded by individual intelligence. When someone needs to make a decision which is too much work for their intelligence or even beyond it i.e. a rational decision, they give up. It hurts their egos to think they can't make the right decision. They start rationalising: "it's not really necessary to always make rational choices." "all this rationality business is for those super clever nerdy types." And then they make bad decisions.

I wonder if over time a chemical structure has evolved in the brain which does this.

Hard problem->Computational limit->Rationalising->Wrong answer.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 15 May 2009 02:28:40PM *  0 points [-]

The point is that with religion, it's easy to forget that more is possible.

I'm skeptical. Why do you think it would be difficult for a religious person to come up with the monument idea, for example?

Comment author: hrishimittal 15 May 2009 02:46:31PM 0 points [-]

I didn't say it would be difficult for a religious person to come up with that idea. But if a religious person did come up with it, what does that have to do with their religion?

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 15 May 2009 02:51:05PM 0 points [-]

"Love your neighbor as yourself", perhaps?