RobbBB comments on Intuitions Aren't Shared That Way - Less Wrong

31 Post author: lukeprog 29 November 2012 06:19AM

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Comment author: RobbBB 03 December 2012 09:49:16PM *  0 points [-]

If so. rationalists may as well shut up shop, because anyone would be able to add an interest-specific lump to the gerrymander.

People already do that, and yet rationalists see no reason to 'shut up shop' as a result. 'True' is just a word. Rationality is about systematic optimization for our goals, not about defending our favorite words from the rabble. Sometimes it's worthwhile to actively criticize a use of 'truth;' sometimes it's worthwhile to participate in the gerrymandering ourselves; and sometimes it's worthwhile just to avoid getting involved in the kerfuffle. For instance, criticizing people for calling 'Sherlock Holmes is a detective' true is both less useful and less philosophically interesting than criticizing people for calling 'there is exactly one empty set' true.

Also, it's important to remember that there are two different respects in which 'truth' might be gerrymandered. First, it might be gerrymandered for purely social reasons. Second, it might be gerrymandered because it's a very complicated property of high-level representational systems. One should not expect mental states in general to be simply and nondisjunctively definable in a strictly physical language. Yet if we learned that 'pain' were a highly disjunctive property rather than a natural kind, this would give us no reason to stop deeming pain unpleasant.

Comment author: Peterdjones 04 December 2012 10:50:48AM *  0 points [-]

People already do that, and yet rationalists see no reason to 'shut up shop' as a result

People try to do that, but rationalists don't have to regard it as legitimate, and can object. However, if a notion of truth is adopted that is pluralistic and has no constraint on its pluralism --Anythng Goes -- rationalists could no longer object to,eg. Astrological Truth.

'True' is just a word.

Rationality is about systematic optimization for our goals, not about defending our favorite words from the rabble.

So you say. Most rationalists are engaged in some sort of wider debate.

sometimes it's worthwhile to participate in the gerrymandering

Even if it is intellectually dishonest to do so?

First, it might be gerrymandered for purely social reasons. Second, it might be gerrymandered because it's a very complicated property of high-level representational systems.

I think you may have confused truth with statesof-mind-having-content-about-truth. Electrons are simple, thoughts about them aren't.

One should not expect mental states in general to be simply and nondisjunctively definable in a strictly physical language. Yet if we learned that 'pain' were a highly disjunctive property rather than a natural kind, this would give us no reason to stop deeming pain unpleasant.

Somethings not being a natural kind, is not justification for arbitrarily changing its definition. I don't get to redefine the taste of chocolate as a kind of pain.

Comment author: RobbBB 04 December 2012 05:54:35PM 0 points [-]

No one on this thread, up till now, has mentioned an arbitrarily changing or anything goes model of truth. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by 'gerrymandered.' All I meant was that the referent of 'truth' in physical or biological terms may be an extremely complicated and ugly array of truth-bearing states. Conceding that doesn't mean that we should allow 'truth' (or any word) to be used completely anarchically.

Comment author: Peterdjones 05 December 2012 11:32:44AM *  0 points [-]

All I meant was that the referent of 'truth' in physical or biological terms may be an extremely complicated and ugly array of truth-bearing states

It might be. Then philosphers would be correct to look for a sense that all those referents have in common.