katydee comments on Poll - Is endless September a threat to LW and what should be done? - Less Wrong

4 Post author: Epiphany 08 December 2012 11:42PM

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Comment author: Epiphany 09 December 2012 10:39:03PM *  4 points [-]

I think LessWrong as a whole would find you less frustrating if you assumed most comments from established users on domain-specific concepts or facts were more likely to be correct

Agreed. That's easier. However, sometimes the easier way is not the correct way.

In a world where the authoritative "facts" can be wrong more often than they're right, scientists often take a roughly superstitious approach to science and the educational system isn't even optimized for the purpose of educating what reason do I have to believe that any authority figure or expert or established user is more likely to be correct?

I wish I could trust other's information. I have wished that my entire life. It is frequently exhausting and damn hard to question this much of what people say. But I want to be correct, not merely pleasant, and that's life.

Eliezer intended for us to question authority. I'd have done it anyway because I started doing that ages ago. But he said in no uncertain terms that this is what he wants:

In Two More Things to Unlearn from School he warns his readers that "It may be dangerous to present people with a giant mass of authoritative knowledge, especially if it is actually true. It may damage their skepticism."

In Cached Thoughts he tells you to question what HE says. "Now that you've read this blog post, the next time you hear someone unhesitatingly repeating a meme you think is silly or false, you'll think, "Cached thoughts." My belief is now there in your mind, waiting to complete the pattern. But is it true? Don't let your mind complete the pattern! Think!"

Perhaps there is a way to be more pleasant while still questioning everything. If you can think of something, I will consider it.

Comment author: katydee 10 December 2012 03:52:52AM 5 points [-]

I'm not saying that a hypothetical vague "you" shouldn't question things. I'm saying that you specifically, User: Epiphany, seem to not be very well-calibrated in this respect and should update towards questioning things less until you have a better feel for LessWrong discussion norms and epistemic standards.

Comment author: Epiphany 10 December 2012 08:21:44PM *  1 point [-]

I'm not saying that a hypothetical vague "you" shouldn't question things.

Neither was I:

what reason do I have to believe that any authority figure or expert or established user is more likely to be correct?


I'm saying that you specifically, User: Epiphany, seem to not be very well-calibrated in this respect and should update towards questioning things less until you have a better feel for LessWrong discussion norms and epistemic standards.

So, trust you guys more while I'm still trying to figure out how much to trust you? Not going to happen, sorry.

Comment author: katydee 10 December 2012 09:14:15PM 0 points [-]

So, trust you guys more while I'm still trying to figure out how much to trust you? Not going to happen, sorry.

So you're trying to figure out how much to trust "us," but you're only willing to update in the negative direction?

Comment author: Epiphany 11 December 2012 03:03:44AM *  1 point [-]

Perhaps the perception you're having is caused by the fact that you did not know how cynical I was when I started. My trust has increased quite a bit. If I appear not to trust Alicorn very much, this is because I've seen what appears to be an unusually high number of mistakes. I realize that this may be due to biased sample (I haven't read thousands of Alicorn's posts, maybe a dozen or so). But I'm not going to update with information I don't have, and I don't see it as a good use of time to go reading lots and lots of posts by Alicorn and whoever else trying to figure out how much to trust them. I will have a realistic idea of her eventually.