Konkvistador comments on Politics Discussion Thread December 2012 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: OrphanWilde 04 December 2012 08:19PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Article Navigation

Comments (136)
Tags: politics thread

Comments (136)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: [deleted] 13 December 2012 05:10:00PM *  5 points [-]

has that connotation for those unfortunate enough to be familiar with his views.

On the contrary I think many more people should be reading Roissy. People here especially. Try out his advice, experiment with it and other variants extensively. If it doesn't work no biggie try something else, but do try it in good faith. I give this advice because this is how I massively improved my own romantic life. Authors like Roissy, Mystery and Athol Kay gave me a good map to understand social and sexual dynamics that mystified me before.

Currently I say the subtitle of his blog is perfectly accurate. There are a whole lot of pretty lies out there, bad advice that is in fact anti-knowledge when it comes to sex and dating. Some of it is well meaning but obsolete, crafted to reality that no longer exists, but some is created with the full knowledge it will harm its carriers. Heartiste demolishes many of them with the sadistic glee they deserve.

I doubt the pretty lies are doing much good because we see they don't condem other things that contribute to the evils they supposedly fight. I mistrust the pretty lies as the incentives working on those who craft them are perverse. I condem the pretty lies because I see friends making stupid decisions based on them that end up wrecking their lives.

I hate the pretty lies because my belief in them was rewarded by stagnation, blindness and pain.

I wouldn't have argued this in such vivid fashion if I wasn't ticked off at how casually you dump boo lights when talking about a guy I'm pretty sure is on net doing something good.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 14 December 2012 03:39:43AM *  3 points [-]

I'd like to know what you think of this (unfortunately long) piece arguing (persuasively IMO) that Mystery/Roissy-style PUA is solving the wrong problem and a memetic hazard.

The right thing for these guys to do would be to deal with these core issues of low self-worth feelings and their inferiority feelings so that they can fix them once and for all. What pickup teaches them to do however is not to fix feelings but instead to switch from their current faulty coping strategy, which is surrender, to another faulty coping strategy of overcompensation. Using overcompensation, they repress these unwanted feelings with defense mechanisms so that they end up blocking themselves from consciously accessing this self-hatred. They learn to rationalize away and deny their feelings of low self-worth. They learn to project away their feelings of inferiority and self-hatred onto others. (Ever wonder why pickup artists develop this fanatical hatred of beta males? It’s their hatred of the beta traits they fear still exist within themselves, so they try to destroy these unwanted traits by first projecting them onto other male targets and then destroying those other targets.) They also learn to use another defense mechanism of intellectualization to cope with these low self-worth feelings, which is where all the mental masturbation and books on evolutionary psychology, animal behavior, persuasion, sales, New Age thinking and success literature like Tony Robbins comes in (not that there’s anything inherently wrong with any of this literature but rather in the way they are being used in this speak instance as a way to avoid fixing core issues).

Comment author: Multiheaded 31 December 2012 01:27:03AM *  0 points [-]

Shevek saw that he had touched in these men an impersonal animosity that went very deep. Apparently they.. ...contained a woman, a suppressed, silenced, bestialized woman, a fury in a cage. He had no right to tease them. They knew no relation but possession. They were possessed.

Ursula Le Guin, The Dispossessed

Comment author: Multiheaded 14 December 2012 07:42:53AM *  0 points [-]

The right thing for these guys to do would be to deal with these core issues of low self-worth feelings and their inferiority feelings so that they can fix them once and for all. What pickup teaches them to do however is not to fix feelings but instead to switch from their current faulty coping strategy, which is surrender, to another faulty coping strategy of overcompensation... It’s their hatred of the beta traits they fear still exist within themselves, so they try to destroy these unwanted traits by first projecting them onto other male targets and then destroying those other targets.

Don't know about him, but I fully agree with it; I've read a fair amount of rants about this problem. I've also had my own story of dealing with low self-worth and alienation, although it didn't end in a heterosexual relationship :)

(sorry about the troll toll, btw)

Comment author: Multiheaded 13 December 2012 05:35:47PM 3 points [-]

Do you think that people like pjeby give worse advice, then? I don't think so; I think there must be a lot of good, competent PUA teachers out there who discard shock value and over-the-top cynicism for actually helping people. With actually benevolent intentions. Is that so unrealistic?

Comment author: Multiheaded 13 December 2012 05:53:16PM *  2 points [-]

but some is created with the full knowledge it will harm its carriers

[citation needed]

I see friends making stupid decisions based on them that end up wrecking their lives

[citation needed]

I hate the pretty lies because my belief in them was rewarded by stagnation, blindness and pain.

Ok, now we're getting closer. I sympathize with you, just as I try to sympathize with everyone who says they've been hurt or fucked over or betrayed. And I would feel wrong it I turned a friend away with some dismissive/inconsiderate talk.

However, could you please admit that while your hurtful experience might bring you closer to the situation emotionally, it certainly introduces some amount of bias and one-sidedness to your perception?

Comment author: [deleted] 13 December 2012 06:03:55PM *  4 points [-]

However, could you please admit that while your hurtful experience might bring you closer to the situation emotionally, it certainly introduces some amount of bias and one-sidedness to your perception?

Yes of course, it is why I made this post recently. People should be aware of the possibility of self-serving rationalizations by people advocating changes in sexual or social norms.

Comment author: drethelin 13 December 2012 10:25:37PM 3 points [-]

Konk, can you make a list of all the pretty lies, their consequences, the true facts, and the other things that don't get condemned? I'm sure Roissy or someone has such a list also, but I'd like to see you restate it.

Powered by Reddit Powered by Reddit