aaronsw comments on Mixed Reference: The Great Reductionist Project - Less Wrong

29 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 05 December 2012 12:26AM

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Comment author: shminux 05 January 2013 10:16:42PM 0 points [-]

and why not?

Comment author: aaronsw 05 January 2013 10:23:39PM 1 point [-]

Because the neuron firing pattern is presumably the cause of the quale, it's certainly not the quale itself.

Comment author: shminux 05 January 2013 10:35:42PM 1 point [-]

I don't understand what else is there.

Comment author: aaronsw 05 January 2013 11:28:17PM 6 points [-]

Imagine a flashlight with a red piece of cellophane over it pointed at a wall. Scientists some day discover that the red dot on the wall is caused by the flashlight -- it appears each and every time the flashlight fires and only when the flashlight is firing. However, the red dot on the wall is certainly not the same as the flashlight: one is a flashlight and one is a red dot.

The red dot, on the other hand, could be reduced to some sort of interaction between certain frequencies of light-waves and wall-atoms and so on. But it will certainly not get reduced to flashlights.

By the same token, you are not going to reduce the-subjective-experience-of-seeing-red to neurons; subjective experiences aren't made out of neurons any more than red dots are made of flashlights.

Comment author: shminux 06 January 2013 01:04:44AM 0 points [-]

By the same token, you are not going to reduce the-subjective-experience-of-seeing-red to neurons; subjective experiences aren't made out of neurons any more than red dots are made of flashlights.

Ok, that's where we disagree. To me the subjective experience is the process in my brain and nothing else.

Comment author: Peterdjones 05 January 2013 11:32:13PM *  0 points [-]

There's no arguemnt there. Your point about qualia is illustrated by your point about flashlights, but not entailed by it.

Comment author: MugaSofer 10 January 2013 12:58:36PM -2 points [-]

By the same token, you are not going to reduce the-subjective-experience-of-seeing-red to neurons; subjective experiences aren't made out of neurons any more than red dots are made of flashlights.

How do you know this?

Comment author: Peterdjones 05 January 2013 10:32:49PM 0 points [-]

There's no certainty either way.