gyokuro comments on Open Thread, December 16-31, 2012 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: OpenThreadGuy 16 December 2012 06:26AM

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Comment author: gyokuro 16 December 2012 06:47:10AM 0 points [-]

About Newcomb's problem + something non-deterministic:

If the contents of box B are increased so that B > A, it seems like by basing the choice of one-boxing or two-boxing off of a quantum coin toss, one could limit Omega's predicting powers from 100% accuracy to a mere coin toss with 50% accuracy.

Where A has $1000 and B has $2000, the average payoff would be $1500 the coin toss ($0 or $3000) versus $1000 by one-boxing and $0 by two-boxing in a way Omega can predict.

Has something like this been considered as a possible resolution?

Comment author: shminux 16 December 2012 08:54:42AM 3 points [-]

y basing the choice of one-boxing or two-boxing off of a quantum coin toss, one could limit Omega's predicting powers from 100% accuracy to a mere coin toss with 50% accuracy.

If you believe in MWI, both outcomes happen, though in different worlds, and Omega knows about both worlds, and stuffs the boxes accordingly.

Comment author: DanielLC 16 December 2012 06:53:38PM 0 points [-]

That's a slightly different problem. How would it be a resolution to the original problem?

Comment author: gyokuro 16 December 2012 07:47:55PM *  0 points [-]

Yeah, It wouldn't be a way to win, since in the original problem you could throw a coin and base your decision on that. Average gain of $500,500 isn't so bad, but not nearly as good as $1,000,000 from one-boxing. You're right, it's not a resolution to the paradox, but if the situation is changed it's a possible way of winning.

I guess I'm looking for ways to beat Omega, and I'm trying to figure out if this would be one of them. Something like "harnessing the power of random"?

Comment author: DanielLC 17 December 2012 06:09:21AM 0 points [-]

It's called a mixed strategy Nash equilibrium. It's a very interesting topic on its own, but it doesn't have a whole lot to do with the decision theory paradoxes that Omega is used to show off.

Comment author: Manfred 16 December 2012 08:21:35AM 0 points [-]

Is it possible for Omega to develop a response to mixed strategies such that the original problem remains, pretty much unchanged?

Comment author: crazy88 16 December 2012 08:05:17AM 0 points [-]

I can't cite sources off-hand but this suggestion is reasonably standard but taken to be a bit of a cheat (it dodges the difficult question). For this reason it is often stipulated that no objective chance device is available to the agent or that the predictor does something truly terrible if the agent decides by such a device (perhaps takes back all the money in the boxes and the money in the agent's bank account).

Comment author: CronoDAS 16 December 2012 08:55:40AM 3 points [-]

Usually, it's just "choosing using a randomizing device will be treated the same as two-boxing."

Comment author: faul_sname 16 December 2012 08:37:32AM 1 point [-]

In other words, the question becomes one of "Omega has two boxes box A and box B, which it fills based on what it thinks you will do. Box A has $1000 and box B has either $0 or $1000000 depending on whether Omega predicts you will take both boxes or only box B, respectively. If Omega predicts that you will do your best to be unpredictable, it will do something bad to you. Should you take box A, box B, or try to be unpredictable?" That question doesn't seem as interesting.