"Brain degradation after death" is the key point in this list that I'd be interested in learning about. I'm not sure if it's proper to ask this in a comment now or should I be studying diligently around the issue, but I think it's also an interesting subject so excuse me.
The cryonics process is often analoguously compared the the event of a harddrive being broken, and the data being retrievable, but brains and harddrives store information in very different ways and this problem always strikes me as very unnerving. Without going into too much detail, it's very easy to see how something that is be mostly truthful for harddrives might turn out not to be true at all for brains.
Personally I would already be signed up for cryonics if I only had the money for that, and I think it's very important to discuss the topic. This is very much related because when I've had those few discussions around cryonics it has usually stumbled on this particular detail. Can the information of the brain really be preserved via cryonics? Does the brain not deteriorate before the actual event of cryopreservation?
Considering how microinfarctions seem to be an irreversible problem even with live human beings for the time being, I'm very skeptical about frequency of the tissue surviving to the point where it's finally frozen.
Just to point out the cited paragraph in the main post did not cover this area exactly, but instead focused on the process of the cryopreservation, and personally I completely disagree with the skepticism of that neuroscientist. If you're interested in why: With his current knowledge the neuroscientist might be underestimating the capacity of future technologies and he is just concentrating on his view of not being able to solve the problem with present technology. As long as the information is stored well enough to be reconstructed in theory, I think it's plausible to say it will be possible in practice later. And the neuroscientist did not seem to (from my extremely layman perspective) concentrate on the issue from the aspect of information theoretic loss, but rather from a practical aspect of extracting that warped information. I think the cryopreservation process is kind of a stable environment where changes to the brain can be traced back and the damage caused by the process potentially reversible. Meanwhile I think occurring chemical reactions, damage from microbes, etc. prior to cryopreservation pose the threat of the information being completely lost, degradation of the brain prior to preservation being they key problem.Something missing as opposed to something being distorted. That's what I think anyway - which is not much in terms of reliabilityCould anyone please be nice and elaborate on this?
"Brain degradation after death" is the key point in this list that I'd be interested in learning about. I'm not sure if it's proper to ask this in a comment now or should I be studying diligently around the issue, but I think it's also an interesting subject so excuse me.
Yes, good intuition. This is what Mike Darwin considers the largest problem in cryonics: http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/02/23/does-personal-identity-survive-cryopreservation/
There are a lot of steps that all need to go correctly for cryonics to work. People who had gone through the potential problems, assigning probabilities, had come up with odds of success between 1:4 and 1:435. About a year ago I went through and collected estimates, finding other people's and making my own. I've been maintaining these in a googledoc.
Yesterday, on the bus back from the NYC mega-meetup with a group of people from the Cambridge LessWrong meetup, I got more people to give estimates for these probabilities. We started with my potential problems, I explained the model and how independence works in it [1]. For each question everyone decided on their own answer and then we went around and shared our answers (to reduce anchoring). Because there's still going to be some people adjusting to others based on their answers I tried to randomize the order in which I asked people their estimates. My notes are here. [2]
The questions were:
To see people's detailed responses have a look at the googledoc, but bottom line numbers were:
(These are all rounded, but one of the two should have enough resolution for each person.)
The most significant way my estimate differs from others turned out to be for "the current cryonics process is insufficient to preserve everything". On that question alone we have:
My estimate for this used to be more positive, but it was significantly brought down by reading this lesswrong comment:
In the responses to their comment they go into more detail.
Should I be giving this information this much weight? "many aspects of synaptic strength and connectivity are irretrievably lost as soon as the synaptic membrane gets distorted" seems critical.
Other questions on which I was substantially more pessimistic than others were "all cryonics companies go out of business", "the technology is never developed to extract the information", "no one is interested in your brain's information", and "it is too expensive to extract your brain's information".
I also posted this on my blog
[1] Specifically, each question is asking you "the chance that X happens and this keeps you from being revived, assuming that all of the previous steps all succeeded". So if both A and B would keep you from being successfully revived, and I ask them in that order, but you think they're basically the same question, then A basically only A gets a probability while B gets 0 or close to it (because B is technically "B given not-A")./p>
[2] For some reason I was writing ".000000001" when people said "impossible". For the purposes of this model '0' is fine, and that's what I put on the googledoc.