I think Robin's reply to that comment (which he left there last week) got to the heart of the issue:
No doubt you can identify particular local info that is causally effective in changing local states, and that is lost or destroyed in cryonics. The key question is the redundancy of this info with other info elsewhere. If there is lots of redundancy, then we only need one place where it is held to be preserved. Your comments here have not spoken to this key issue.
It may be that what the brain uses to store some vital information is utterly destroyed by cryonics, but there is some other feature of the arrangement of atoms in the brain, possibly some side effect that has no function in the living brain, that is sufficiently correlated with the information we care about that we can reverse-engineer what we need from it. This is the "hard drive" argument for cryonics (I got it from the Sequences, but I would suspect it didn't originate there): it's not that hard (I think, though I do not know much about this topic) to erase data from a hard drive so that the normal functionality of the hard drive can't bring it back, but it's rather difficult to erase it in a way that someone sufficiently motivated with enough funding can't get it back.
However, kalla724 did say
Distortion of the membranes and replacement of solvent irretrievably destroys information that I believe to be essential to the structure of the mind. I don't think that would ever be readable into anything but a pale copy of the original person, no matter what kind of technological advance occurs (information simply isn't there to be read, regardless of how advanced the reader may be).
This is a clear assertion that there aren't even any correlates of that information preserved, if kalla724 has already thought the correlates argument through. It's not clear to me whether or not they have.
This is a clear assertion that there aren't even any correlates of that information preserved, if kalla724 has already thought the correlates argument through. It's not clear to me whether or not they have.
Note useful discussion today by wedrifid and Eliezer, arguing that kalla724's comments clearly suggest that they haven't. I got the same vibe, but my knowledge of the relevant science is so spotty that I didn't want to make a confident prediction myself.
There are a lot of steps that all need to go correctly for cryonics to work. People who had gone through the potential problems, assigning probabilities, had come up with odds of success between 1:4 and 1:435. About a year ago I went through and collected estimates, finding other people's and making my own. I've been maintaining these in a googledoc.
Yesterday, on the bus back from the NYC mega-meetup with a group of people from the Cambridge LessWrong meetup, I got more people to give estimates for these probabilities. We started with my potential problems, I explained the model and how independence works in it [1]. For each question everyone decided on their own answer and then we went around and shared our answers (to reduce anchoring). Because there's still going to be some people adjusting to others based on their answers I tried to randomize the order in which I asked people their estimates. My notes are here. [2]
The questions were:
To see people's detailed responses have a look at the googledoc, but bottom line numbers were:
(These are all rounded, but one of the two should have enough resolution for each person.)
The most significant way my estimate differs from others turned out to be for "the current cryonics process is insufficient to preserve everything". On that question alone we have:
My estimate for this used to be more positive, but it was significantly brought down by reading this lesswrong comment:
In the responses to their comment they go into more detail.
Should I be giving this information this much weight? "many aspects of synaptic strength and connectivity are irretrievably lost as soon as the synaptic membrane gets distorted" seems critical.
Other questions on which I was substantially more pessimistic than others were "all cryonics companies go out of business", "the technology is never developed to extract the information", "no one is interested in your brain's information", and "it is too expensive to extract your brain's information".
I also posted this on my blog
[1] Specifically, each question is asking you "the chance that X happens and this keeps you from being revived, assuming that all of the previous steps all succeeded". So if both A and B would keep you from being successfully revived, and I ask them in that order, but you think they're basically the same question, then A basically only A gets a probability while B gets 0 or close to it (because B is technically "B given not-A")./p>
[2] For some reason I was writing ".000000001" when people said "impossible". For the purposes of this model '0' is fine, and that's what I put on the googledoc.