Academian comments on Ritual Report 2012: Life, Death, Light, Darkness, and Love. - Less Wrong

20 Post author: Raemon 23 December 2012 06:56PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (206)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 December 2012 07:05:36AM 4 points [-]

The difference is in the awareness of the participants.

In PUA, you don't tell the person you are interacting with "I am about to engage in the following techniques to manipulate your response to me..." And then explain which techniques you are going to use, and then ask her if it's ok for you to use those techniques.

Contrarily, in these rituals participants have been given the fore-knowledge of "Hey, these are the techniques that we will be using in the ritual to manipulate your emotional responses..." and implicitly consent by showing up. On top of that, for our ritual we started with a meta section, where I straight out repeated what was going to happen, and what the goal was, etc.

Comment author: drethelin 24 December 2012 07:22:14AM 2 points [-]

This is kind of a tangent but I'm curious as to how you view PUA as nonconsensual, compared to eg, just being charming, or friendly or nice. Do you announce every interaction with "Now I am being nice to you, because I want you to like me more."?

Comment author: Raemon 24 December 2012 07:25:03AM 9 points [-]

I am going to officially request that we not make the comments section of this post a discussion about PUA. It's a valuable topic, but please, not here.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 December 2012 07:31:54AM 6 points [-]

I won't go too far this tangential rabbit hole, especially since it has been covered quite a lot on here previously. But a quick answer:

I am actually a PUA moderate. I don't think Dark Arts or their usage are inherently bad. There are some bad practices (i.e. things that cause the target to feel bad) and ideas (i.e. lets focus on "Women" being manipulatable, rather than "People" being manipulatable.) there, but People Having Social Skills is good, and systematizing can be useful.

That said, my comment about fore-knowledge was to show how informed ritual and PUA are completely different anyways, and the comparison doesn't hold. So we don't even have to go into the PUA discussion.