Vaniver comments on Ritual Report 2012: Life, Death, Light, Darkness, and Love. - Less Wrong
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Comments (206)
Thank you; I appreciate your response. Based on what daenerys wrote, I think that my response breaks down as follows:
Using ritual to insert things deep into your psyche is something that I think is just bad. Using writings on rationality as sermons, reciting litanies about truth by candelight, etc., misses the point and is dangerous because it attaches you to the views and propositions in question too closely.
Using ritual as group bonding... I don't understand the motivation, to be honest. I acknowledge that it probably works, I just can't understand why you'd want to do it. This is, of course, a personal preference, not any kind of criticism per se.
The above two points notwithstanding, I find rituals very icky and offputting (especially, upon reflection, when they have an (explicitly?) religious feel to them!). This is the case regardless of whether the purpose is worthwhile and whether the ritual effectively serves the purpose.
From your linked post:
This describes me. Not literally; I never (well, almost never) had any mindless rituals forced upon me, but I don't like mindless ritual and enjoy the rationalist perspective for absence thereof.
I haven't tuned out, but I do find it offputting, as I mentioned.
I find this view unfortunate. Not just for the personal reason that you're describing my reaction as an acceptable cost (which I can understand, even if it makes me somewhat sad), but because I don't agree with your framing. I don't think I'm a cynic. I consider myself rather idealistic. I'm not sure why you think only cynics would be turned off by such things.
The rest of your post largely doesn't address my concerns, I'm afraid. bryjnar's comment here is fairly close to my own views, and the responses don't seem at all satisfactory to me.
I am beginning to suspect that this may be a fairly fundamental difference in preferences.
Bad as in morally wrong, epistemically wrong, or instrumentally wrong?
Instrumentally wrong.
Thanks for clarifying.
Rereading your statement, the word "insert" jumps out at me. Would you endorse this modified statement?
Or would the badness depend on which things you're preserving?