"Not Even Scientists Can Easily Explain P-values"
It’s not their fault, said Steven Goodman, co-director of METRICS. Even after spending his “entire career” thinking about p-values, he said he could tell me the definition, “but I cannot tell you what it means, and almost nobody can.” Scientists regularly get it wrong, and so do most textbooks, he said. When Goodman speaks to large audiences of scientists, he often presents correct and incorrect definitions of the p-value, and they “very confidently” raise their hand for the wrong answer. “Almost all of them think it gives some direct information about how likely they are to be wrong, and that’s definitely not what a p-value does,” Goodman said.
Okay, stupid question :-/
“Almost all of them think it gives some direct information about how likely they are to be wrong, and that’s definitely not what a p-value does...”
But
"...the technical definition of a p-value — the probability of getting results at least as extreme as the ones you observed, given that the null hypothesis is correct..."
Aren't these basically the same? Can't you paraphrase them both as "the probability that you would get this result if your hypothesis was wrong"? Am I failing to understand what they mean...
Frequentist statistics is a wide field, but in practice by innumerable psychologists, biologists, economists etc, frequentism tends to be a particular style called “Null Hypothesis Significance Testing” (NHST) descended from R.A. Fisher (as opposed to eg. Neyman-Pearson) which is focused on
NHST became nearly universal between the 1940s & 1960s (see Gigerenzer 2004, pg18), and has been heavily criticized for as long. Frequentists criticize it for:
What’s wrong with NHST? Well, among other things, it does not tell us what we want to know, and we so much want to know what we want to know that, out of desperation, we nevertheless believe that it does! What we want to know is, “Given these data, what is the probability that H0 is true?” But as most of us know, what it tells us is “Given that H0 is true, what is the probability of these (or more extreme) data?” These are not the same…
Similarly, the cargo-culting encourages misuse of two-tailed tests, avoidance of multiple correction, data dredging, and in general, “p-value hacking”.
(An example from my personal experience of the cost of ignoring effect size and confidence intervals: p-values cannot (easily) be used to compile a meta-analysis (pooling of multiple studies); hence, studies often do not include the necessary information about means, standard deviations, or effect sizes & confidence intervals which one could use directly. So authors must be contacted, and they may refuse to provide the information or they may no longer be available; both have happened to me in trying to do my dual n-back & iodine meta-analyses.)
Critics’ explanations for why a flawed paradigm is still so popular focus on the ease of use and its weakness; from Gigerenzer 2004:
Shifts away from NHST have happened in some fields. Medical testing seems to have made such a shift (I suspect due to the rise of meta-analysis):
0.1 Further reading
More on these topics:
The perils of NHST, and the merits of Bayesian data analysis, have been expounded with increasing force in recent years (e.g., W. Edwards, Lindman, & Savage, 1963; Kruschke, 2010b, 2010a, 2011c; Lee & Wagenmakers, 2005; Wagenmakers, 2007).
Although the primary emphasis in psychology is to publish results on the basis of NHST (Cumming et al., 2007; Rosenthal, 1979), the use of NHST has long been controversial. Numerous researchers have argued that reliance on NHST is counterproductive, due in large part because p values fail to convey such useful information as effect size and likelihood of replication (Clark, 1963; Cumming, 2008; Killeen, 2005; Kline, 2009 [Becoming a behavioral science researcher: A guide to producing research that matters]; Rozeboom, 1960). Indeed, some have argued that NHST has severely impeded scientific progress (Cohen, 1994; Schmidt, 1996) and has confused interpretations of clinical trials (Cicchetti et al., 2011; Ocana & Tannock, 2011). Some researchers have stated that it is important to use multiple, converging tests alongside NHST, including effect sizes and confidence intervals (Hubbard & Lindsay, 2008; Schmidt, 1996). Others still have called for NHST to be completely abandoned (e.g., Carver, 1978).
[http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#flaws-in-mainstream-science-and-psychology](http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#flaws-in-mainstream-science-and-psychology)[https://www.reddit.com/r/DecisionTheory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DecisionTheory/)