shokwave comments on What if "status" IS a terminal value for most people? - Less Wrong

18 Post author: handoflixue 24 December 2012 08:31PM

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Comment author: pleeppleep 25 December 2012 12:15:56AM *  21 points [-]

I don't know what to make of this. It means everything I'd pieced together about people is utterly, utterly wrong, because it assumed that they all valued truth, and understanding - the pursuits of intelligence when you don't have the political trait.

"Truth" and "understanding" seem to work as applause lights in this sentence. "Status" is used to the opposite effect throughout the post.

I think you're premise is a little confused. It sounds like you previously viewed status-seeking as the emotional equivalent of immoral, but now you don't because you realize it has adaptational advantages. I find it strange that you feel evolutionary causation is adequate to justify something, but I guess I won't question that.

More to the point, I think you're misjudging status. Status isn't as simple Machiavellian plays for power. It's generally assumed that only sociopaths play for dominance in and of itself. The term "status" feels kinda dirty when you analyze human interaction from afar. There's always the subtext that if you play for it, you're a bad person. That's not the way it feels when you're actually talking to other people.

Seeking status can feel like trying to live up to the expectations of people you care about. It can feel like trying to stand on equal ground with your friends. It can feel like trying be comfortable talking to that girl at the grocery store.

When people look at status seeking under a microscope, they usually try to screen off the humanity of its experience and so it comes off as something a super villain would do. When you actually feel it, it feels right. It feels very human. If you interact with other people at all, I can almost (not quite) guarantee that you seek status, you just don't call it status.

Comment author: shokwave 25 December 2012 10:04:46AM 0 points [-]

I find it strange that you feel evolutionary causation is adequate to justify something, but I guess I won't question that.

Not justify: instead, explain. I understood that previously, handoflixue felt that status was dirty, but in understanding it has come to feel that it's just part of human nature (for most people, as the post points out).

Comment author: Academian 12 January 2013 08:07:55PM 0 points [-]

Not justify: instead, explain.

I disagree. Justification is the act of explaining something in a way that makes it seem less dirty.

Comment author: shokwave 13 January 2013 05:12:04AM 0 points [-]

Not sure I agree; people are often asked to justify their decisions - to argue their choice was better than another, and calling those arguments an explanation feels like we're stretching the definition of 'explain'.